{"id":5388,"date":"2011-05-04T00:20:51","date_gmt":"2011-05-04T05:20:51","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/akunq.net\/tr\/?p=5388"},"modified":"2011-05-04T00:20:51","modified_gmt":"2011-05-04T05:20:51","slug":"ozgur-findik-kara-vagondan-ermenileri-indirip-sunnet-ediyorlardi","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/akunq.net\/turkish\/2011\/05\/04\/ozgur-findik-kara-vagondan-ermenileri-indirip-sunnet-ediyorlardi\/","title":{"rendered":"\u00d6zg\u00fcr F\u0131nd\u0131k: \u201cKara Vagon\u201ddan Ermenileri indirip s\u00fcnnet ediyorlard\u0131"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"\"<\/a>O trene herkes \u2018kara vagon\u2019 diyordu. \u00c7\u00fcnk\u00fc Dersim katliam\u0131nda esir al\u0131nanlar i\u00e7i pislik ve hayvan dolu bir vagona doldurularak, g\u00fcnlerce a\u00e7-susuz tutuldu. Tuvalet ihtiya\u00e7lar\u0131n\u0131 gidermelerine bile izin verilmedi. Hatta trendeki Ermeniler yolda indirilip zorla s\u00fcnnet edildi. Dersim 38\u2019i beyaz perdeye ta\u015f\u0131yan y\u00f6netmen \u00d6zg\u00fcr F\u0131nd\u0131k\u2019\u0131n \u201cKara Vagon\u201dun hikayesini ANF\u2019ye anlatt\u0131.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

1994\u2019te Dersim\u2019de k\u00f6ylerin yak\u0131lmas\u0131n\u0131 \u201cK\u0131rm\u0131z\u0131 Kalem\u201d belgeseliyle anlatan y\u00f6netmen \u00d6zg\u00fcr F\u0131nd\u0131k \u015fimdi de 1938 katliam\u0131na yer verdi\u011fi \u201cKara Vagon\u201d adl\u0131 belgeselle kar\u015f\u0131m\u0131zda. Soyk\u0131r\u0131ma kat\u0131lm\u0131\u015f askerlerin ve ayn\u0131 d\u00f6nemde K\u00fcrtlerle b\u00f6lgeden s\u00fcr\u00fclen Dersimli Ermenilerin anlat\u0131mlar\u0131na yer verilen \u201cKara Vagon\u201d katliam\u0131n 74. y\u0131ld\u00f6n\u00fcm\u00fc olan 5 May\u0131s\u2019ta Bilgi \u00dcniversitesi\u2018nde ilk kez g\u00f6sterilecek.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Dersim\u2019de ya\u015fananlar\u0131n katliam de\u011fil, soyk\u0131r\u0131m oldu\u011funu s\u00f6yleyen F\u0131nd\u0131k, Genelkurmay ar\u015fivleri a\u00e7\u0131lmas\u0131n\u0131 istiyor. \u201cKara Vagon\u201du ve 1930\u2019lu y\u0131llarda Dersim\u2019de ya\u015fananlar\u0131 F\u0131nd\u0131k\u2019a sorduk.<\/p>\n

\u00a0Dersim soyk\u0131r\u0131m\u0131n\u0131 anlatma fikri nerden do\u011fdu?<\/strong><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

– Dersim soyk\u0131r\u0131m\u0131 hakk\u0131nda \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmaya 2004 y\u0131l\u0131nda ba\u015flad\u0131m. \u0130lk olarak \u201cK\u0131rm\u0131z\u0131 Kalem\u201d adl\u0131 bir belgesel \u00e7ektim. 1994 k\u00f6y yakmalar\u0131ndan ba\u015flayarak 1938 soyk\u0131r\u0131m\u0131na kadar devletin Dersim\u2019e yakla\u015f\u0131m\u0131n\u0131 bu s\u00fcreci ya\u015fam\u0131\u015f olan ma\u011fdurlarla konu\u015farak olaylar\u0131 aktard\u0131m. Asl\u0131nda \u201cKara Vagon\u201d belgeseli de \u201cK\u0131rm\u0131z\u0131 Kalem\u201d belgeselinin bir devam\u0131. Ancak \u201cKara Vagon\u201dda di\u011fer belgesellerden farkl\u0131 olarak soyk\u0131r\u0131m\u0131n arka plan\u0131na de\u011finme yolunu se\u00e7tim. Soyk\u0131r\u0131ma bizzat kat\u0131lm\u0131\u015f 2 askerin de tan\u0131kl\u0131\u011f\u0131na yer verdim. Ayr\u0131ca o d\u00f6nemde s\u00fcrg\u00fcne g\u00f6nderilen Dersim Ermenilerinden de s\u00f6z etim.<\/p>\n

\u00a0\u201cKara Vagon\u201d ismi nerden geliyor? <\/em><\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n

– Bu isim s\u00fcrg\u00fcne yollanm\u0131\u015f insanlar\u0131n zorla bindirildikleri treni \u201ckara vagon\u201d olarak adland\u0131rmalar\u0131ndan geliyor. \u201cTrene mi bindiniz?\u201d diye sordu\u011fumda konu\u015ftu\u011fum herkes, o treni \u201ckara vagon\u201d diye adland\u0131rd\u0131. Y\u00fczlerce insan i\u00e7i pislik ve hayvan dolu bir vagona doldurularak, g\u00fcnlerce a\u00e7-susuz tutulmu\u015f\u00ac. Tuvalet ihtiya\u00e7lar\u0131n\u0131 gidermelerine bile izin verilmemi\u015f.<\/p>\n

K\u0131y\u0131m yetmedi\u011fi i\u00e7in mi s\u00fcrg\u00fcn edildiler?<\/em><\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n

– 1938\u2019den sonra iskan kanunu \u00e7\u0131kart\u0131ld\u0131. Ve devlet taraf\u0131ndan yasak b\u00f6lge olarak adland\u0131r\u0131lan t\u00fcm y\u00f6re ve k\u00f6yler zorla bo\u015falt\u0131ld\u0131. \u015eimdi ilk olarak 1935\u2019te Dersim kanunu \u00e7\u0131kart\u0131l\u0131yor, Dersim katliam\u0131n\u0131 and\u0131\u011f\u0131m\u0131z 5 May\u0131s\u2019ta da bakanlar kurulu bizzat operasyon d\u00fczenleyip, operasyon sonras\u0131 arta kalan \u00e7ocuklar ve kad\u0131nlar ba\u015fta olmak \u00fczere herkesi Bat\u0131 b\u00f6lgelerine s\u00fcrg\u00fcne g\u00f6nderiyor. Aileler par\u00e7alan\u0131yor, her aileden 10 ki\u015fi al\u0131n\u0131p g\u00f6t\u00fcr\u00fcl\u00fcyor. Asl\u0131nda k\u0131y\u0131m \u201cKara Vagon\u201dda da s\u00fcr\u00fcyor, yolda bir\u00e7ok insan katlediliyor.<\/p>\n

Ma\u011fdur ve tan\u0131klara nas\u0131l ula\u015ft\u0131n\u0131z?<\/em><\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n

– Bal\u0131kesir, Konya, Kayseri, Manisa, \u0130zmir, Isparta, Ayd\u0131n gibi yakla\u015f\u0131k 25 b\u00f6lgeyi dola\u015ft\u0131k. Daha sonra Berlin\u2019de yurtd\u0131\u015f\u0131na giden Dersimli Ermenileri bulduk. Onlarla da konu\u015ftuk. Bire bir o d\u00f6nemi ya\u015fam\u0131\u015f, soyk\u0131r\u0131mdan cesetlerin alt\u0131nda yada ma\u011faralarda saklanan ve \u201cKara Vagon\u201da bindirilip s\u00fcrg\u00fcn edilen insanlarla r\u00f6portaj yapt\u0131k.<\/p>\n

Peki katliam ve s\u00fcrg\u00fcn plan\u0131 nas\u0131l geli\u015fiyor?<\/em><\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n

– T\u00fcrkiye Cumhuriyeti kurulduktan sonra Mustafa Kemal, Fevzi \u00c7akmak, \u0130smet \u0130n\u00f6n\u00fc, \u015e\u00fckr\u00fc Kaya ekibinin 1930\u2019lardan itibaren Dersim\u2019e dair d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnceleri vard\u0131. Fikirlerini ise Dersim soyk\u0131r\u0131m\u0131 \u00f6ncesi haz\u0131rlanan rapor zaten ortaya koyuyor. Bu planl\u0131 bir hareket. Devletin burada 1935\u2019lerden ba\u015flayarak 1938\u2019e kadar s\u00fcren kanl\u0131 bir hareketi s\u00f6z konusu. \u0130lk ba\u015fta t\u00fcm a\u015firetlerin silahlar\u0131 toplat\u0131l\u0131yor. A\u015firetler aras\u0131ndaki \u00e7eli\u015fkiler derinle\u015ftiriliyor. A\u015firet a\u011falar\u0131n\u0131n toplan\u0131p idam edilmesinden sonra art\u0131k insanlar\u0131n toplu k\u0131y\u0131m\u0131na ge\u00e7iliyor.<\/p>\n

Devletin o d\u00f6nemdeki resmi ideolojisini T\u00fcrkle\u015ftirme ve S\u00fcnni \u0130slam \u00fczerine kurdu\u011fu a\u00e7\u0131k\u00e7a g\u00f6z\u00fck\u00fcyor. Ben o a\u00e7\u0131dan bu soyk\u0131r\u0131m\u0131n Ko\u00e7giri\u2019de oldu\u011fu gibi K\u00fcrt toplumuna y\u00f6nelik de\u011fil de daha \u00e7ok inan\u00e7 merkezli oldu\u011funu d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnenlerdenim. \u00c7\u00fcnk\u00fc bir K\u0131z\u0131lba\u015f Aleviler, bir de Ermeniler hedef se\u00e7ilmi\u015fti ve bu ulustan \u00e7ok inanca y\u00f6nelik bir yok etme operasyonuydu. Devlet etnik kimlikten \u00e7ok din olgusu \u00fczerinden bunu yap\u0131yor. Daha sonra da \u0130skan kanunu \u00e7\u0131kart\u0131l\u0131yor ve insanlar Bat\u0131\u2019ya s\u00fcrg\u00fcn ediliyor.<\/p>\n

“Kara Vagon”un i\u00e7inde Ermeniler de var\u2026<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

– Yolda askerlere \u201cBunlar Ermenidir, K\u0131z\u0131lba\u015ft\u0131r, dinsiz, imans\u0131z\u201d deniliyor. Ermeni oldu\u011fu ortaya \u00e7\u0131k\u0131nca vagondan indiriyorlar. Kayseri\u2019de indirdikleri insanlar\u0131n cinsel organlar\u0131na teker teker bakarak hepsini s\u00fcnnet ediyorlar. Bu da yetmemi\u015f gibi s\u00fcnnet ettikten sonra da isimlerini de\u011fi\u015ftiriyorlar ve \u201cArt\u0131k siz M\u00fcsl\u00fcmans\u0131n\u0131z\u201d diyerek bir yere b\u0131rak\u0131yorlar. Konu\u015ftu\u011fum hemen hemen t\u00fcm Ermeniler \u201c1915\u2019ten kurtulduk ancak 1938\u2019den kurtulamad\u0131k\u201d diyorlar. Dersimli Ermeniler i\u00e7in 1915 ile 1938 ayn\u0131. Onlar kendilerini Dersim topra\u011f\u0131n\u0131n bir par\u00e7as\u0131 olarak g\u00f6r\u00fcyorlar ve hep oran\u0131n \u00f6zlemiyle y\u0131llarca ya\u015fam\u0131\u015flar.<\/p>\n

Ayr\u0131ca s\u00fcrg\u00fcn edilen b\u00f6lgelerde yerli halk\u0131yla da g\u00f6r\u00fc\u015ft\u00fcn\u00fcz. Dersimlileri nas\u0131l kar\u015f\u0131lam\u0131\u015flar?<\/em><\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n

– Yerel halk devlet taraf\u0131ndan korkutulmu\u015f. \u201cDersimliler gelince ne d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnd\u00fcn\u00fcz?\u201d sorusunu y\u00f6neltti\u011fimde \u201cKorktuk, bize da\u011fdan geldiklerini, kuyruklu olduklar\u0131n\u0131, insan olmad\u0131klar\u0131n\u0131, insan yediklerini s\u00f6ylediler. Cani diye yans\u0131tt\u0131lar\u201d diye konu\u015ftular. Yerel halk\u0131n Dersimlileri bu alg\u0131larla kar\u015f\u0131lad\u0131klar\u0131n\u0131 anlat\u0131mlardan g\u00f6rebiliyoruz.<\/p>\n

Dersim katliam\u0131n\u0131n soyk\u0131r\u0131m olarak tan\u0131nmas\u0131 amac\u0131yla Uluslararas\u0131 Ceza Mahkemesi\u2019ne ba\u015fvuru yap\u0131ld\u0131. Bu s\u00fcre\u00e7 i\u00e7in belgeseliniz \u00f6nemli olacak\u2026<\/em><\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n

– Dersim komisyonunun bu konuyu Uluslararas\u0131 Ceza Mahkemesi\u2019ne ta\u015f\u0131mas\u0131n\u0131 sonuna kadar destekliyorum. Soyk\u0131r\u0131m ile ilgili Birle\u015fmi\u015f Milletlerin belli k\u0131staslar\u0131 var. Onlardan bir tanesi \u00e7ocuklar\u0131n katledilmesi, ba\u015fka ailelere verilmesi vb. Dersim\u2019de 1938\u2019de a\u015firet a\u011falar\u0131 idam edildikten sonra as\u0131l soyk\u0131r\u0131m ya\u015fan\u0131yor. Mesela k\u0131z \u00e7ocuklar\u0131 ba\u015fka ailelere verilip asimilasyona u\u011frat\u0131l\u0131yor. T\u00fcrkle\u015ftirilip, S\u00fcnnile\u015ftiriliyor. Bunlar tabii ki bir soyk\u0131r\u0131ma i\u015faret ediyor. Hem de hi\u00e7 bitmeyen bir k\u00fclt\u00fcrel soyk\u0131r\u0131ma. Bunlar\u0131n hepsi devletin burada 1935\u2019den bu yana sistematik bir bi\u00e7imde halk\u0131, d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnceyi, inanc\u0131, k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fc yok etmek amac\u0131 g\u00fctt\u00fc\u011f\u00fcn\u00fc g\u00f6steriyor ve bu soyk\u0131r\u0131m\u0131n sorumlusu Mustafa Kemal\u2019dir. Ancak bunlar\u0131n hepsi katil; \u0130smet \u0130n\u00f6n\u00fc ne kadar katilse, Celal Bayar da o kadar katil.<\/p>\n

Bu s\u00fcre\u00e7 nas\u0131l ayd\u0131nlanabilir?<\/em><\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n

– Genelkurmay ar\u015fivleri a\u00e7\u0131ls\u0131n. Devlet y\u00fczle\u015fsin bu tarihle ve \u00f6z\u00fcr dilesin. Erdo\u011fan\u2019\u0131n \u201cDersim katliam\u0131\u201d ifadesi yetmez, biz samimiyeti pratikten anlar\u0131z s\u00f6ylemden de\u011fil. Benim \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmam ise bir film ya da tam anlam\u0131yla bir belgesel de\u011fil, s\u00f6zl\u00fc tarih anlat\u0131m de\u011feri ta\u015f\u0131yor. Amac\u0131 da toplumu bir ger\u00e7ekle y\u00fczle\u015ftirmek.<\/p>\n

Sabanc\u0131 \u00dcniversitesi \u00f6\u011fretim \u00fcyesi Leyla Neyzi\u2019nin yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131 r\u00f6portajdan al\u0131p belgeselde yer verilen iki askerin anlat\u0131mlar\u0131 ise t\u00fcyler \u00fcrpertici. Askerlerden biri ismini vermemi\u015f. Dersim olaylar\u0131n\u0131n ya\u015fand\u0131\u011f\u0131 d\u00f6nemde 2. Tabur, 9. B\u00f6l\u00fck\u2018te g\u00f6rev yapan 108 ya\u015f\u0131ndaki Diyarbak\u0131rl\u0131 erlerden Eskeri Akyol\u2019\u00fcn s\u00f6zleri ise s\u0131k s\u0131k a\u011flamalarla kesiliyor:<\/p>\n

\u201c\u00d6yle \u015feyler ya\u015fand\u0131 ki anlatamam. \u0130nsanl\u0131\u011fa s\u0131\u011fmayan \u015feylerdi. Allah, Muhammed\u2018in \u00fcmmetini bir daha bu hale d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcrmesin. Kad\u0131n, \u00e7ocuk herkesi diri diri yakt\u0131k. Dersim\u2019e, Diyarbak\u0131r\u2019dan yedi g\u00fcn, yedi gece y\u00fcr\u00fcyerek gittik. Oraya vard\u0131ktan sonra bizi Ali Bo\u011faz\u0131\u2019na verdiler. Gitti\u011fimizde evler yak\u0131l\u0131yordu. Askerler ula\u015ft\u0131klar\u0131 evleri i\u00e7indekilerle birlikte gazya\u011f\u0131 d\u00f6k\u00fcp yak\u0131yorlard\u0131.<\/p>\n

Komutan\u0131m\u0131z\u0131n ad\u0131 Ethem Atalay\u2019d\u0131. Elaz\u0131\u011fl\u0131 oldu\u011funu s\u00f6yl\u00fcyorlard\u0131. Ka\u00e7anlar\u0131n bir k\u0131sm\u0131 derelere, ma\u011faralara s\u0131\u011f\u0131nm\u0131\u015flard\u0131. Daha diren\u00e7li olanlar Munzur nehrinden kar\u015f\u0131ya ge\u00e7iyorlard\u0131. Askerler yeti\u015fir yeti\u015fmez ate\u015fe veriyorlard\u0131 ma\u011faralar\u0131. Sonra gitti\u011fimizde bir bak\u0131yorduk ki \u00e7o\u011fu benim bug\u00fcnk\u00fc ya\u015f\u0131mda olan insanlar\u0131 askerler \u00fcst \u00fcste y\u0131\u011f\u0131yor ve \u00fczerlerine gazya\u011f\u0131 d\u00f6k\u00fcp ate\u015fliyorlard\u0131. \u00d6yle canl\u0131 canl\u0131. Kad\u0131n, \u00e7oluk \u00e7ocuklar\u0131 da yak\u0131yorlard\u0131. \u00c7ocuklar\u0131n bacaklar\u0131na ba\u015flar\u0131na ta\u015flarla vurarak \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fcyorlard\u0131.<\/p>\n

Dersimliler \u00e7ok \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fcld\u00fcler. Kutu Deresinde ceset kokusundan durulmuyordu. \u0130nsanlar\u0131 \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fcp atm\u0131\u015flard\u0131. B\u00f6yle bir felaket g\u00f6r\u00fclmemi\u015ftir. Maalesef k\u00f6t\u00fc askerler \u00e7oktu. Onlar kad\u0131n, \u00e7oluk \u00e7ocuk ayr\u0131m\u0131 yapmazlard\u0131. Kad\u0131nlar\u0131 g\u00f6t\u00fcr\u00fcp k\u00f6t\u00fcl\u00fckler yap\u0131yorlard\u0131. Allah, Muhammed\u2019in \u00fcmmetini bu hale d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcrmesin. Ayn\u0131 bizim gibi Zazayd\u0131lar, Kurman\u00e7lar da vard\u0131. Dersim k\u00f6yl\u00fclerinden de askerler vard\u0131 yan\u0131m\u0131zda. Biz ayn\u0131 milletin \u00e7ocuklar\u0131yd\u0131k ve birbirimizle sava\u015f\u0131yorduk.\u201d
\n\u00a0<\/p>\n

Tert.am<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

03.05.11<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

O trene herkes \u2018kara vagon\u2019 diyordu. \u00c7\u00fcnk\u00fc Dersim katliam\u0131nda esir al\u0131nanlar i\u00e7i pislik ve hayvan dolu bir vagona doldurularak, g\u00fcnlerce a\u00e7-susuz tutuldu. Tuvalet ihtiya\u00e7lar\u0131n\u0131 gidermelerine bile izin verilmedi. Hatta trendeki Ermeniler yolda indirilip zorla s\u00fcnnet edildi. Dersim 38\u2019i beyaz perdeye ta\u015f\u0131yan y\u00f6netmen \u00d6zg\u00fcr F\u0131nd\u0131k\u2019\u0131n \u201cKara Vagon\u201dun hikayesini ANF\u2019ye anlatt\u0131. 1994\u2019te Dersim\u2019de k\u00f6ylerin yak\u0131lmas\u0131n\u0131 \u201cK\u0131rm\u0131z\u0131 Kalem\u201d […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[14],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-5388","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-haberler"],"yoast_head":"\n\u00d6zg\u00fcr F\u0131nd\u0131k: \u201cKara Vagon\u201ddan Ermenileri indirip s\u00fcnnet ediyorlard\u0131 - Bati Ermenistan Ve Bati Ermenileri Sorunlari Ara\u015ftirmalar Merkezi<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/akunq.net\/turkish\/2011\/05\/04\/ozgur-findik-kara-vagondan-ermenileri-indirip-sunnet-ediyorlardi\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"\u00d6zg\u00fcr F\u0131nd\u0131k: \u201cKara Vagon\u201ddan Ermenileri indirip s\u00fcnnet ediyorlard\u0131 - Bati Ermenistan Ve Bati Ermenileri Sorunlari Ara\u015ftirmalar Merkezi\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"O trene herkes \u2018kara vagon\u2019 diyordu. \u00c7\u00fcnk\u00fc Dersim katliam\u0131nda esir al\u0131nanlar i\u00e7i pislik ve hayvan dolu bir vagona doldurularak, g\u00fcnlerce a\u00e7-susuz tutuldu. Tuvalet ihtiya\u00e7lar\u0131n\u0131 gidermelerine bile izin verilmedi. Hatta trendeki Ermeniler yolda indirilip zorla s\u00fcnnet edildi. 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