{"id":84414,"date":"2025-09-15T03:10:22","date_gmt":"2025-09-15T08:10:22","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/akunq.net\/tr\/?p=84414"},"modified":"2025-09-15T03:10:22","modified_gmt":"2025-09-15T08:10:22","slug":"ermeni-deresinde-uc-kadin-nivart-guluzar-ve-fecire","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/akunq.net\/tr\/?p=84414","title":{"rendered":"Ermeni Deresi\u2019nde \u00fc\u00e7 kad\u0131n: N\u0131vart, G\u00fcl\u00fczar ve Fecire"},"content":{"rendered":"<header class=\"post-header cf\">\n<h1 class=\"post-title\"><span class=\"reviewer\" style=\"font-size: 16px;\"><a title=\"Vartan Halis Y\u0131ld\u0131r\u0131m\" href=\"https:\/\/www.agos.com.tr\/tr\/yazar\/477\/vartan-halis-yildirim\" rel=\"author\">Vartan Halis Y\u0131ld\u0131r\u0131m<\/a><\/span><\/h1>\n<p class=\"post-title\"><em><strong><span style=\"font-size: 16px;\">Dersimli sanat\u00e7\u0131 Delil X\u0131d\u0131r, babas\u0131 Musa\u2019n\u0131n sevdi\u011fi ama kavu\u015famad\u0131\u011f\u0131 Ermeni gen\u00e7 kad\u0131n N\u0131vart\u2019\u0131n hik\u00e2yesini yeni yay\u0131nlad\u0131\u011f\u0131 klam\u0131nda anlat\u0131yor. N\u0131vart, 1915\u2019ten sa\u011f \u00e7\u0131km\u0131\u015f ancak 1938\u2019deki katliamda Musa\u2019n\u0131n day\u0131 k\u0131zlar\u0131 ile birlikte katledilmi\u015f.<\/span><\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<\/header>\n<div class=\"post-container cf\">\n<div class=\"post-content-right\">\n<div class=\"post-content description \">\n<p>Dersimli sanat\u00e7\u0131 Delil X\u0131d\u0131r, gen\u00e7 bir Ermeni kad\u0131n\u0131n hik\u00e2yesini anlatt\u0131\u011f\u0131 \u201cN\u0131vart\u201d adl\u0131 klam\u0131 (\u015fark\u0131y\u0131) yay\u0131nlad\u0131. Youtube\u2019dan da dinleyebilece\u011finiz \u015fark\u0131da anlat\u0131lan N\u0131vart\u2019\u0131n hik\u00e2yesini ve \u015fark\u0131y\u0131 birlikte seslendirdi\u011fi sanat\u00e7\u0131lar\u0131 Delil X\u0131d\u0131r\u2019a sorduk.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Delil X\u0131d\u0131r kimdir diye ba\u015flasak?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>1955 do\u011fumluyum. Dersim\u2019in Hozat il\u00e7esine ba\u011fl\u0131 K\u0131z\u0131lmezra k\u00f6y\u00fcndenim. Mezra Sure, K\u0131rman\u00e7ki ismi. 1938\u2019de k\u00f6y\u00fcm\u00fcz bas\u0131ld\u0131, toplu katliam yap\u0131ld\u0131, 165 ki\u015fi \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fcld\u00fc. Sadece 5 ki\u015fi sa\u011f kald\u0131. Babam Musay\u00ea Mill\u00ea de yaral\u0131 olarak kurtulanlardan biriydi. Annem ise Ovac\u0131kl\u0131. 1938 arifesinde, yani 1937\u2019de k\u00f6yleri bas\u0131ld\u0131. Erkekleri toplad\u0131lar, g\u00f6t\u00fcrd\u00fcler. Annem o s\u0131rada 16 ya\u015f\u0131nda, alt\u0131 ayl\u0131k hamileydi. Ormana ka\u00e7arak kurtulmak istedi, orada \u00e7ocu\u011funu d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcrd\u00fc. Dedem onu ormanda bulup geri getirdi.\u00a0Babam 1938\u2019de ilk e\u015fini ve iki k\u0131z\u0131n\u0131 kaybetti. B\u00fcy\u00fcklerinin tavsiyesi \u00fczerine, sonra annemi buldu. Ona, \u201cE\u015fimi ve \u00e7ocuklar\u0131m\u0131 kaybettim, hi\u00e7bir \u015feyim yok, yerde yapraklar\u0131n \u00fcst\u00fcnde yat\u0131yorum\u201d dedi. Annem de babam\u0131n pe\u015fine tak\u0131ld\u0131. Yani yaral\u0131 bir babadan ve yaral\u0131 bir anneden yery\u00fcz\u00fcne zuhur eyleyen bir can\u0131m.<\/p>\n<p>Bu co\u011frafyada ya\u015fayan herkes gibi, bizim de hayat\u0131m\u0131z katliamlar\u0131n, s\u00fcrg\u00fcnlerin, yar\u0131m kalm\u0131\u015f sevdalar\u0131n g\u00f6lgesinde ge\u00e7ti. Daha \u00f6nce Ermenilerin ya\u015fad\u0131\u011f\u0131 ac\u0131lar, s\u00fcrg\u00fcnler, tehcirler, yar\u0131m kalan a\u015fklar, gizemli sevdalar da bu topraklar\u0131n haf\u0131zas\u0131nda. Benim ya\u015fam\u0131m da, kuzular\u0131n ard\u0131nda ko\u015fturarak\u2014a\u015fka meyli olan bir g\u00f6n\u00fcl var tabii\u2014dereler kenarlar\u0131nda, g\u00fcller, \u00e7i\u00e7ekler aras\u0131nda ge\u00e7ti. 12 ya\u015f\u0131na kadar k\u00f6yde ya\u015fad\u0131m, sonra Elaz\u0131\u011f\u2019a gittim, sonras\u0131 da 44 y\u0131ld\u0131r Avusturya\u2019da ya\u015f\u0131yorum. Bu co\u011frafyan\u0131n klamlar\u0131n\u0131 yazmaya \u00e7al\u0131\u015f\u0131yorum.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Klam\u0131n\u0131zda s\u00f6yledi\u011finiz N\u0131vart\u2019\u0131n hik\u00e2yesini anlatabilir misiniz?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Ben 70 ya\u015f\u0131nday\u0131m. 60 y\u0131l oldu babam bana bunu anlatal\u0131. Klamda anlatt\u0131\u011f\u0131m N\u0131vart\u2019\u0131n babas\u0131 Melkon (\u0544\u0565\u056c\u0584\u0578\u0576), biz ona M\u0131lko amca derdik. M\u0131lko amcan\u0131n karde\u015fi Garo amca. Torut k\u00f6y\u00fcnde ya\u015f\u0131yorlarm\u0131\u015f. Ermeni katliam\u0131 d\u00f6neminde M\u0131lko amcan\u0131n \u00fc\u00e7 o\u011flunu g\u00f6t\u00fcr\u00fcyorlar. Onlar\u0131n ak\u0131beti belli de\u011fil. Sonra M\u0131lko amca da g\u00f6\u00e7 etmi\u015f, bizim k\u00f6ye gelmi\u015f. Hemen evimizin kar\u015f\u0131s\u0131nda evleri var.<\/p>\n<p>O d\u00f6nemde benim babam Musa, onlar\u0131n k\u0131zlar\u0131 N\u0131vart\u2019a sevdalan\u0131r. Bir t\u00fcrl\u00fc olmaz. Babam\u0131n day\u0131 taraf\u0131 a\u011fad\u0131r, Abbasa\u011fal\u0131 Mehmet A\u011fa. \u015e\u00f6yle bir hik\u00e2yesi var: Bir g\u00fcn day\u0131m Mehmet A\u011fa, birka\u00e7 ki\u015fiyle M\u0131lko amcaya giderler. K\u00f6ye misafir olurlar. Bu arada Mehmet A\u011fa\u2019n\u0131n yan\u0131ndaki bir \u015fah\u0131s ileri geri konu\u015fur: \u201c\u0130\u015fte Ermenileri toplay\u0131p g\u00f6t\u00fcrd\u00fcklerinde, ben de orada idim, \u015funlar\u0131 yapt\u0131m, bunlar\u0131 yapt\u0131m\u201d. Day\u0131m o ara diyor ki, \u201cBenim ye\u011fenim Musa\u2019ya ver k\u0131z\u0131n\u0131, h\u0131s\u0131m olal\u0131m\u201d. M\u0131lko amca da d\u00f6n\u00fcp Mehmet A\u011fa\u2019ya \u015f\u00f6yle diyor: \u201cHa\u015fa Mehmet A\u011fa! Yan\u0131ndaki adam sabahtan beri bize hakaret ediyor.\u201d Mehmet A\u011fa da yumru\u011funu adam\u0131n a\u011fz\u0131na vuruyor. Day\u0131m\u0131n yan\u0131ndaki, 1915\u2019te Ermeni katliam\u0131na kat\u0131lan milislerden biriymi\u015f. M\u0131lko amca da, \u201cMehmet A\u011fa ge\u00e7ti art\u0131k, ba\u015fta yapacakt\u0131n\u201d diyor. M\u0131lko amca bir bu\u00e7uk y\u0131l sonra oradan g\u00f6\u00e7 ediyor. Vermiyorlar N\u0131vart\u2019\u0131 da babama.<\/p>\n<p>N\u0131vart da evlenmez. Kader Mehmet A\u011fa ile M\u0131lko amcay\u0131 tekrar bulu\u015fturur. Mehmet A\u011fa ve M\u0131lko amca, kar\u0131s\u0131, Hozat taraf\u0131nda, Po\u015fe denilen yerde, Dersim 38\u2019de beraber katlediliyorlar. Daha sonra k\u0131zlar\u0131 bizim k\u00f6ye getiriyorlar. K\u00f6y\u00fcn a\u015fa\u011f\u0131s\u0131nda \u00e7e\u015fme var. Mola veriyorlar. Benim nenem, yani Abbas A\u011fa\u2019n\u0131n k\u0131z\u0131, Mehmet A\u011fa\u2019n\u0131n bac\u0131s\u0131, o gidiyor, yalvar\u0131yor askerlere. \u201cEtmeyin, bunlar benim ye\u011fenimdir\u2019\u2019 diyor. \u201cHay\u0131r, bu Milko\u2019nun k\u0131z\u0131d\u0131r\u201d derler, \u201cErmenidir\u201d. \u201cBunlar da ba\u015fkald\u0131ran a\u011falar\u0131n k\u0131zlar\u0131.\u201d Elinden alam\u0131yor k\u0131zlar\u0131. Babam, \u201cK\u00f6y\u00fcn \u00fcstlerinde \u00e7ad\u0131rlar\u0131 kurdular ve onlara \u00e7ok k\u00f6t\u00fc \u015feyler yapt\u0131lar. \u0130ki g\u00fcn sonra g\u00f6t\u00fcrd\u00fcler\u201d diye anlatt\u0131\u2026 Bizim k\u00f6y\u00fcn hemen yan taraf\u0131nda \u201cErmeni Deresi\u201d var. Orada Ermeni katliam\u0131n\u0131 ger\u00e7ekle\u015ftirmi\u015fler. \u0130smi oradan geliyor. Biz k\u00fc\u00e7\u00fckken giderdik kuzulara. Kad\u0131n sa\u00e7lar\u0131, a\u011fa\u00e7lara dolanm\u0131\u015ft\u0131. Biz onlar\u0131 al\u0131rd\u0131k, \u00e7ekerdik. Bize k\u0131zarlard\u0131, yaz\u0131kt\u0131r yapmay\u0131n derlerdi. Biz bilmiyorduk tabii. B\u00fcy\u00fcklerimiz sa\u00e7lar\u0131 elimizden al\u0131rlard\u0131, yine g\u00f6t\u00fcr\u00fcp ta\u015f\u0131n alt\u0131na koyarlard\u0131. \u0130\u015fte o \u00fc\u00e7 k\u0131z\u0131 da orada katletmi\u015fler. N\u0131vart ile Mehmet A\u011fa\u2019n\u0131n iki k\u0131z\u0131n\u0131, G\u00fcl\u00fczar ile Fecire.<\/p>\n<p>Babam, Ermeni Deresi\u2019nden ge\u00e7ti\u011fimizde bir yeri s\u00fcrekli \u00f6perdi. Y\u0131llarca anlatmad\u0131, en son 1979\u2019da s\u00f6yledi. N\u0131vart\u2019\u0131, G\u00fcl\u00fczar\u2019\u0131 ve Ferice\u2019yi daha sonra k\u00f6yl\u00fcler buraya g\u00f6mm\u00fc\u015fler ve babam her seferinde onlar\u0131n yatt\u0131klar\u0131 yeri \u00f6perdi.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Klam\u0131n\u0131z\u0131 Hasan Sa\u011flam ve Gul\u00ea May\u00eara ile birlikte icra ediyorsunuz. Biraz onlardan bahseder misiniz?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Hasan Sa\u011flam, Ovac\u0131kl\u0131. Sadece m\u00fczikle de\u011fil, edebiyatla da ilgilenen, ufku geni\u015f biri. Bir\u00e7ok kitab\u0131 var: Topra\u011f\u0131na Tutunanlar, Yasak M\u0131nt\u0131kan\u0131n \u00c7ocuklar\u0131, Ma -C\u00fcmlenin Ba\u015flad\u0131\u011f\u0131 Yer gibi. Ayr\u0131ca belgesel \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131 da var: Hard \u00fb Asmen (Yer ve G\u00f6k) ve Mem gibi. Onun kalemi, bu co\u011frafyan\u0131n hik\u00e2yesini gelecek ku\u015faklara aktaran bir k\u00f6pr\u00fc. Gul\u00ea May\u00eara ise Hozatl\u0131. Ailece tan\u0131d\u0131\u011f\u0131m\u0131z biri. Sesinde \u00e7ok derin, \u00e7ok \u00f6zel bir t\u0131n\u0131 var. Onun sesi, bu dilin ve bu co\u011frafyan\u0131n ruhunu ta\u015f\u0131r. Ben her zaman bu sesi \u00e7ok sevmi\u015fimdir.<\/p>\n<p>K\u0131rm\u0131z\u0131 Zazaki\u2019nin \u00f6n\u00fcndeki engeller hem d\u0131\u015far\u0131dan dayat\u0131lan asimilasyon hem de i\u00e7eriden ticari kayg\u0131larla bozulan m\u00fczik ve dilsel bilin\u00e7sizliktir. Buna ra\u011fmen, Hasan Sa\u011flam ve Gul\u00ea May\u00eara gibi insanlar sayesinde bu dil ve m\u00fczik h\u00e2l\u00e2 ya\u015f\u0131yor, direniyor.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dersim m\u00fczi\u011fini nas\u0131l de\u011ferlendirirsiniz?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Dersim m\u00fczi\u011finin \u00fc\u00e7 d\u00f6nemi var. Birinci d\u00f6nem 1938 \u00f6ncesi. A\u015firetler aras\u0131 kavgalarda Sey Qaji, Alaverdi, Weliye U\u015fene, Heso Qaji ve babam Musay\u00ea Mill\u00ea gibi ozanlar bar\u0131\u015f ve g\u00fczellikler i\u00e7in m\u00fczik yapm\u0131\u015flar. Ve a\u015fk m\u00fczikleri yo\u011funlukta o zamanlar. \u0130kinci d\u00f6nem ise 38 sonras\u0131; daha \u00e7ok a\u011f\u0131tlar var. Fakat bizde daha \u00f6ncesine giden tarih anlatan eser yok, sadece katliamlarla ilgili \u015feyler var. Anadilimizde daha \u00f6nceki d\u00f6nemlere dair tarihi klam yok. Bizim eski klamlar\u0131m\u0131z, dilimiz sonra yasakland\u0131. Tekke ve Zaviye Kanunu\u2019yla inanc\u0131m\u0131z da yasakland\u0131. Bundan sonra ise sol ad\u0131 alt\u0131nda bir ink\u00e2r siyaseti geli\u015fti, yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131m\u0131z m\u00fczi\u011fe dair, ki bu da yanl\u0131\u015ft\u0131. M\u00fczi\u011fin ahengi, t\u0131n\u0131s\u0131 de\u011fi\u015fti; m\u00fczik de\u011fi\u015fince y\u00fcrek de de\u011fi\u015fiyor. Ne oldu bu s\u00fcre\u00e7lerin sonucunda? T\u00fcrk\u00e7e konu\u015fuluyor.<\/p>\n<p><strong>K\u0131rman\u00e7\/Zazak\u00ee dilindeki klamlar\u0131n \u00f6n\u00fcnde engeller var m\u0131?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Resm\u00ee s\u00f6ylem bu engelleri kabul etmez, \u201chi\u00e7bir engel yok\u201d der. Fakat pratikte durum \u00f6yle de\u011fil. Bu dil \u00fcniversitelerde ya da okullarda anadil olarak \u00f6\u011fretilmez; yaz\u0131l\u0131 ve kurumsal bir alan\u0131 yok. Eskiden evlerde konu\u015fulur, klamlar da s\u00f6ylenirdi; bug\u00fcn ise daha \u00e7ok t\u00fcrk\u00fc barlarda ve sahnelerde duyuluyor.<br \/>\nAs\u0131l sorun \u015fu: Bu engellerin bir k\u0131sm\u0131n\u0131 biz kendimiz \u00e7\u0131kard\u0131k. M\u00fczi\u011fin kendi do\u011fal ritmini terk edip ticari bir forma b\u00fcr\u00fcnd\u00fcrmemiz, t\u0131n\u0131lar\u0131m\u0131z\u0131 de\u011fi\u015ftirdi. Art\u0131k melodiler T\u00fcrk\u00e7e m\u00fczi\u011fin kal\u0131plar\u0131na benzemeye ba\u015flad\u0131. Sanat\u0131n yerini kazan\u00e7 kayg\u0131s\u0131 ald\u0131\u011f\u0131nda, dilin ruhu da m\u00fczi\u011fin t\u0131n\u0131s\u0131 da de\u011fi\u015fti. Bu, sadece d\u0131\u015far\u0131dan gelen bir \u201casimilasyon\u201d de\u011fil, ayn\u0131 zamanda i\u00e7eriden kendi ellerimizle olu\u015fturdu\u011fumuz bir engel. Yeni ku\u015fak dili, tarihi, co\u011frafyay\u0131, co\u011frafyan\u0131n g\u00fczelliklerini tan\u0131m\u0131yor; bu bilgisizlik de en b\u00fcy\u00fck engellerden biri haline geliyor.<\/p>\n<p><em><strong>https:\/\/www.agos.com.tr\/tr\/yazi\/35728\/ermeni-deresinde-uc-kadin-nivart-guluzar-ve-fecire\u00a0<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Vartan Halis Y\u0131ld\u0131r\u0131m Dersimli sanat\u00e7\u0131 Delil X\u0131d\u0131r, babas\u0131 Musa\u2019n\u0131n sevdi\u011fi ama kavu\u015famad\u0131\u011f\u0131 Ermeni gen\u00e7 kad\u0131n N\u0131vart\u2019\u0131n hik\u00e2yesini yeni yay\u0131nlad\u0131\u011f\u0131 klam\u0131nda anlat\u0131yor. N\u0131vart, 1915\u2019ten sa\u011f \u00e7\u0131km\u0131\u015f ancak 1938\u2019deki katliamda Musa\u2019n\u0131n day\u0131 k\u0131zlar\u0131 ile birlikte katledilmi\u015f. Dersimli sanat\u00e7\u0131 Delil X\u0131d\u0131r, gen\u00e7 bir Ermeni kad\u0131n\u0131n hik\u00e2yesini anlatt\u0131\u011f\u0131 \u201cN\u0131vart\u201d adl\u0131 klam\u0131 (\u015fark\u0131y\u0131) yay\u0131nlad\u0131. Youtube\u2019dan da dinleyebilece\u011finiz \u015fark\u0131da anlat\u0131lan N\u0131vart\u2019\u0131n [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":7,"featured_media":84415,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1,71],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-84414","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-haberler","category-mulakatlar"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Ermeni Deresi\u2019nde \u00fc\u00e7 kad\u0131n: N\u0131vart, G\u00fcl\u00fczar ve Fecire - Bati Ermenistan Ve Bati Ermenileri Sorunlari Ara\u015ftirmalar Merkezi<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/akunq.net\/tr\/?p=84414\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Ermeni Deresi\u2019nde \u00fc\u00e7 kad\u0131n: N\u0131vart, G\u00fcl\u00fczar ve Fecire - Bati Ermenistan Ve Bati Ermenileri Sorunlari Ara\u015ftirmalar Merkezi\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Vartan Halis Y\u0131ld\u0131r\u0131m Dersimli sanat\u00e7\u0131 Delil X\u0131d\u0131r, babas\u0131 Musa\u2019n\u0131n sevdi\u011fi ama kavu\u015famad\u0131\u011f\u0131 Ermeni gen\u00e7 kad\u0131n N\u0131vart\u2019\u0131n hik\u00e2yesini yeni yay\u0131nlad\u0131\u011f\u0131 klam\u0131nda anlat\u0131yor. N\u0131vart, 1915\u2019ten sa\u011f \u00e7\u0131km\u0131\u015f ancak 1938\u2019deki katliamda Musa\u2019n\u0131n day\u0131 k\u0131zlar\u0131 ile birlikte katledilmi\u015f. Dersimli sanat\u00e7\u0131 Delil X\u0131d\u0131r, gen\u00e7 bir Ermeni kad\u0131n\u0131n hik\u00e2yesini anlatt\u0131\u011f\u0131 \u201cN\u0131vart\u201d adl\u0131 klam\u0131 (\u015fark\u0131y\u0131) yay\u0131nlad\u0131. 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