Ermenihaber.am<\/a>\u00a0kar\u015f\u0131l\u0131kl\u0131 \u00f6zel temsilcilerin atanmas\u0131yla Ermenistan ve T\u00fcrkiye aras\u0131nda ba\u015flayan diyalog s\u00fcreci konusunda T\u00fcrkiye\u2019deki siyasi \u00e7er\u00e7evelerinden farkl\u0131 isimlerle, sivil toplumu temsil eden \u015fah\u0131slarla r\u00f6portajlar ger\u00e7ekle\u015ftiriyor. T\u00fcrkiye\u2019deki siyasi \u00e7er\u00e7evelerin ve genel olarak toplumun bu konuda ne d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnd\u00fcklerini okuyucular\u0131m\u0131z\u0131n dikkatine sunmaya \u00e7al\u0131\u015faca\u011f\u0131z.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nBu r\u00f6portaj\u0131 T\u00fcrk siyaset\u00e7i, eski Esenyurt Belediye Ba\u015fkan\u0131\u00a0G\u00fcrb\u00fcz \u00c7apan<\/strong>\u00a0ile yapt\u0131k.<\/em><\/p>\n\u2014 2020 y\u0131l\u0131nda ya\u015fanan 44 g\u00fcnl\u00fck Artsakh (Karaba\u011f) sava\u015f\u0131ndan yakla\u015f\u0131k 2 y\u0131l sonra, Ermenistan ve T\u00fcrkiye’nin \u00f6zel temsilcilerinin atanmas\u0131yla bir \u00e7\u00f6z\u00fcm s\u00fcreci ba\u015flat\u0131ld\u0131. Mevcut a\u015famada Ermenistan-T\u00fcrkiye ili\u015fkilerinin normalle\u015fmesini ger\u00e7ek\u00e7i buluyor musunuz?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n\u2014\u00a0Ger\u00e7ek\u00e7i bulmak isterim, ancak burada bir tiyatro var ve bu tiyatro bitmedi bir t\u00fcrl\u00fc. Ben 90\u2019li y\u0131llarda Ter-Petrosyan Cumhurba\u015fkan\u0131yken yan\u0131ma \u00fc\u00e7 gazeteciyle birlikte Ermenistan\u2019a, Yerevan\u2019a gelmi\u015ftik. Ba\u015f\u0131ma gelmeyen kalmad\u0131. Geri geldi\u011fimde bir k\u0131yamet koptu, cezaevine att\u0131lar, b\u00fcy\u00fck s\u0131k\u0131nt\u0131lar ya\u015fad\u0131m.\u00a0Burada T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de derin bir Ermeni d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131\u011f\u0131 i\u015flemi\u015fler.<\/strong>\u00a0Y\u00f6neticiler ba\u015fka Rum d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131, sonra da Ermeni d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 genlerine bula\u015fm\u0131\u015flard\u0131r neredeyse. Bunun k\u0131nanmas\u0131, a\u015f\u0131lmas\u0131 gerekiyor. Sovyetler Birli\u011finde de \u00f6yleydi. Ermenilerde endirmi\u015flerdi. Hayali bir d\u00fc\u015fman yaratm\u0131\u015flard\u0131. Kafkasya\u2019daki b\u00fct\u00fcn halklar\u0131 birbirine kar\u015f\u0131 husumeti, d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131\u011f\u0131 vard\u0131 ama bizimkiler anormal safhada. Bu acayip bir \u015feydi. Sonra da duydum 2023\u2019te\u00a0 kap\u0131y\u0131 a\u00e7t\u0131lar, fakat Ermeni ve T\u00fcrk ge\u00e7miyor kap\u0131dan. Sinek, b\u00f6cek ge\u00e7iyor galiba. \u015eimdi normalle\u015fme-mormalle\u015fme diyorlar ama ke\u015fke olsalar. Ermenistan liberalle\u015fti falan diyorlar iyi oldu. Bir sorun yok. T\u00fcrkiye-Yunanistan aras\u0131nda bir \u015fey kalmad\u0131 art\u0131k, fakat kafalar \u00e7ok k\u00fcf\u00fcrl\u00fc oldu\u011fu i\u00e7in genetik forma d\u00f6n\u00fc\u015ft\u00fcrm\u00fc\u015fler d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131\u011f\u0131.<\/p>\nBiz T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de bir grup Ermeni Soyk\u0131r\u0131m\u0131n\u0131 kabul ederiz. Bize nas\u0131l d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131\u011f\u0131 yaparlar, anlatamam. Ne diyorsun peki i\u015fi say\u0131ya ba\u011fl\u0131yorlar. En efendisi diyor ki 300 bin \u00f6lm\u00fc\u015f diyor. Biri diyor ki 1 milyon \u00f6lm\u00fc\u015f. Neyse… Bu ne? Kuzu mu koyun mu \u00f6lm\u00fc\u015f? 300 bin az m\u0131 yani? Bunu sordu\u011fumuzda da d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131k g\u00f6rmekteyiz.\u00a0Yani b\u0131rak\u0131n Ermeni d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131, Ermenistan\u2019a d\u00fc\u015fman olmayanlara da d\u00fc\u015fmanlar.<\/strong><\/p>\n\u2014 Taraflar bir ka\u00e7 anla\u015fmaya vard\u0131, ancak bug\u00fcne kadar T\u00fcrkiye taraf\u0131ndan anla\u015fmalar\u0131n hayata ge\u00e7irilmesi i\u00e7in hi\u00e7 bir ad\u0131m at\u0131lmad\u0131. Ankara, Yerevan ile ili\u015fkilerini bilerek mi normalle\u015ftirmek istemiyor yoksa ba\u015fka nedenler mi var?<\/strong><\/p>\n\u2014\u00a0Bilerek, taamm\u00fcden. Azerbaycan buray\u0131 kullan\u0131yor. Ne kadar kapka\u00e7 edindi\u011fi para varsa hepsini T\u00fcrkiye \u00fczerine kullan\u0131yor. Dolay\u0131s\u0131yla T\u00fcrkiye\u2019ye esir olmu\u015f durumdalar. Yani o \u00f6zellik var. Azerbaycan bizim karde\u015fimiz, Ermeni niye bizim d\u00fc\u015fman\u0131m\u0131z olsun karde\u015fim. Yani o ayr\u0131\u00a0 o da ayr\u0131 bir \u00fclke. Bizim i\u00e7in de karde\u015fimiz. G\u00fcrc\u00fc de karde\u015fimiz. Yani o sayfaya gelemedik bir t\u00fcrl\u00fc daha. Bir anlat\u0131lan hikaye var ya: Ermenistan\u2019da herkesin evinde bir Ararat da\u011f\u0131 foto\u011fraf\u0131 var, k\u00fc\u00e7\u00fck penecereli bir ev, T\u00fcrk d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131\u011f\u0131 nas\u0131l kasla\u015fm\u0131\u015fsa onun kar\u015f\u0131s\u0131na T\u00fcrkler ayn\u0131\u00a0 \u015fekilde bir d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131k g\u00fctmektedirler. Bu dili, jargonu de\u011fi\u015ftirmeden bir yere \u00e7\u0131kaca\u011f\u0131m\u0131z\u0131 zannetmiyorum. Ter-Petrosyan\u2019\u0131n \u00f6nerisi vard\u0131: Bu i\u015fi tarih\u00e7ilere b\u0131rakal\u0131m diye, tarih\u00e7iler tart\u0131\u015fs\u0131n filan.\u00a0Ger\u00e7i tarih\u00e7iler asker dili kullanarak tart\u0131\u015f\u0131yorlar.<\/strong> Hala oradalar. 90\u2019l\u0131lardan 30 y\u0131l ge\u00e7ti aradan bu jargon de\u011fi\u015fmedi. Bir gazeteciyi oturtuyorsun, T\u00fcrkiye Genelkurmay Ba\u015fkan\u0131 gibi konu\u015fuyor. Ya da bir Ermeniyi oturtuyorsun Ermenistan Kara Kuvvetleri Komutan\u0131 gibi konu\u015fuyor. Bu dilden \u00e7\u0131karmak laz\u0131m. En d\u00fczg\u00fcn dil kullanan Amerika Diasporas\u0131d\u0131r. Frans\u0131z Diasporas\u0131 \u00e7ok sert davran\u0131yor.<\/p>\nBir de \u00fczerine Karaba\u011f\u2019da “tuz biber” oldu. Yani biraz uzun s\u00fcreye ihtiya\u00e7 vard\u0131r. S\u0131k\u0131\u015ft\u0131 bizim h\u00fck\u00fcmet. Belki de ondan dolay\u0131 bir ad\u0131m atabilir \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc ekonomik \u00e7\u0131kmaza, siyasi krize\u00a0 girdiler. Ondan dolay\u0131 d\u0131\u015far\u0131da iyi ili\u015fkiler kurma bask\u0131s\u0131 var, \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc S\u00fcriye\u2019de b\u00fct\u00fcn kolu kom\u015fu bir yandan Irak, Suriye, hepsine d\u00fc\u015fman olduk. Zaten Ermeniler kalu beladan beri d\u00fc\u015fman\u0131z, Allaha \u015f\u00fck\u00fcr.\u00a0 “Yurtta sulh cihanda sulh” doldurma vatanda\u015flar\u0131n tepki de var. Belki de imana gelirler de\u00a0 kap\u0131y\u0131 a\u00e7arlar, normalle\u015firiz, bir gidip gelmeye ba\u015flar\u0131z. Aram\u0131zda ticaret anla\u015fmas\u0131 olur. El\u00e7ilik olur. Normal bir \u00fclke gibi davranmam\u0131z laz\u0131m birbirmize.<\/p>\n
\u2014 Yak\u0131n zamanda s\u0131n\u0131rlar a\u00e7\u0131l\u0131r m\u0131? Bu konuda ne d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcn\u00fcyorsunuz?<\/strong><\/p>\n\u2014 \u00c7ok umutlu de\u011filim ben. Ben Yerevan\u2019dan ta\u015f getirdim, Kars\u2019ta bir otel yapt\u0131rd\u0131m. Yahu adamlar otele d\u00fc\u015fman oldu. Ben Da\u011f\u0131stan muhaciriyim, Bizim k\u00f6klerimiz Da\u011f\u0131standan geldiler. A\u00e7t\u0131rmamak i\u00e7in her \u015feyi yapt\u0131lar. Sanli Ermeni kalesi kurmu\u015fuz gibi davran\u0131yorlar. Bunlar nas\u0131l normalle\u015fecek. Ahalde bir \u015fey yok, y\u00f6neticilerde d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131k var. Bir y\u00f6netici kendine Ermeni veya Rum d\u00fc\u015fman\u0131 yapmak zorunda hissediyor. Yani Bat\u0131da ne kadar al\u00e7ak adam varsa onlara Rum tohumu derler do\u011fuda Ermeni tohumu derler.<\/p>\n
Yerevan\u2019da var ya T\u00fcrk suyu i\u00e7ilmez. Bunu k\u0131rmak gerekiyor. Birbirimize olan bu dili k\u0131rmam\u0131z gerekiyor. Biz burada epey \u00e7abalad\u0131k Taner Ak\u00e7am arkada\u015f\u0131mla.<\/p>\n
San\u0131yorum Amerikal\u0131lar\u0131n bask\u0131s\u0131yla belki biraz bir \u015fey yapabilirler. Bu yeni d\u00f6nem ABD y\u00f6netiminden \u00fcmitliyim biraz. Hem g\u00fcneydo\u011fuda hem Kafkasya\u2019da bir yumu\u015famaya sebep olabilir onlar. Bize kal\u0131rsa bizde bir \u00fcmidim yok benim.<\/p>\n
\u2014\u00a01995’te Ermenistan’\u0131 ziyaret ederek Ermenistan Cumhurba\u015fkan\u0131 Levon Ter-Petrosyan’la bir araya gelmi\u015ftiniz. Bir T\u00fcrk siyaset\u00e7i olarak Ermeni Soyk\u0131r\u0131m\u0131 An\u0131t\u0131n\u0131 da ziyaret etmi\u015ftiniz. Daha sonra T\u00fcrkiye’ye d\u00f6nd\u00fc\u011f\u00fcn\u00fczde Ermenistan\u2019a gitmenizi Amerikal\u0131lar\u0131n istedi\u011finizi s\u00f6ylemi\u015ftiniz. Ermeni Soyk\u0131r\u0131m\u0131 An\u0131t\u0131na ziyareteniz T\u00fcrkiye’de nas\u0131l kar\u015f\u0131land\u0131?<\/strong><\/p>\n\u2014\u00a0Beni kilitlediler, sonra doland\u0131rd\u0131lar, hapise att\u0131lar. Hakk\u0131mda bir dava a\u00e7m\u0131\u015flard\u0131. Mesela davan\u0131n konusu;<\/p>\n
1) Ermeni misin?<\/strong><\/p>\n2) Ermenistan\u2019da koyun ka\u00e7ak\u00e7\u0131l\u0131\u011f\u0131,<\/strong><\/p>\n3) N\u00fckleer silah ka\u00e7ak\u00e7\u0131l\u0131\u011f\u0131 yapm\u0131\u015f\u0131m\u00a0<\/strong>diye dava a\u00e7t\u0131lar.<\/p>\n\u2014\u00a0Soyk\u0131r\u0131mc\u0131lar\u0131n aras\u0131nda amcan\u0131z\u0131n ismi de ge\u00e7iyor.\u00a0 Bu konuda neler s\u00f6yleyebilirsiniz?<\/strong><\/p>\nAmcam\u00a0Te\u015fk\u00eel\u00e2t-\u0131 Mahs\u00fbsa\u2019n\u0131n eleman\u0131yd\u0131. O kavgada varlar yani. O kavgada olan bir aileyiz. Ama biz kan\u0131, kanl\u0131y\u0131 y\u0131kamay\u0131z. Dedem yapm\u0131\u015ft\u0131r. Ne yapay\u0131m. O d\u00f6nem bir \u015fey olmu\u015f. Ben \u015fimdi bar\u0131\u015fseverim, hi\u00e7 bir Ermeni\u2019ye d\u00fc\u015fman de\u011filim ben, kimseye, hi\u00e7 bir \u0131rk\u0131ndan dolay\u0131 d\u00fc\u015fman de\u011filim. Dolay\u0131s\u0131yla bunun gere\u011fini yapt\u0131m. Ermenistan\u2019a gitmekle ba\u015f\u0131ma bu s\u0131k\u0131nt\u0131lar\u0131n\u0131n gelece\u011fini biliyordum. T\u00fcrke\u015f evrak, ka\u011f\u0131t al dedi. Seni burada \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fcrler dedi. Ben inanmam\u0131\u015ft\u0131m. Sonra ba\u015f\u0131ma gelmeyen kalmad\u0131.<\/p>\n
Alparslan T\u00fcrke\u015f destekledi beni o zaman. Hem gidi\u015fte destekledi hem geri geldi\u011fimde lin\u00e7 ettiler beni, televizonda eskiden T\u00fcrk eski Moskova B\u00fcy\u00fckel\u00e7isi\u00a0 onunla beraber beni destekledi. .<\/p>\n
\u2014 Alparslan T\u00fcrke\u015f ziyaretinizi destekledi mi?<\/strong><\/p>\n\u2014\u00a0Evet, tabii, tabii destekledi.<\/p>\n
\u2014\u00a0Bir milliyet\u00e7i, bir Ermeni d\u00fc\u015fman\u0131 olarak destekledi mi?<\/strong><\/p>\n– Yani Ermeni d\u00fc\u015fman\u0131 de\u011fil. Madem bir yar\u0131s\u0131 Ermeni… Ermeni d\u00fc\u015fman\u0131 de\u011fildi. Sonuna kadar destekledi. Hem gitti\u011fimde,\u00a0hem geri geldi\u011fimde beni lin\u00e7 ettiler. Televizyonda T\u00fcrkkaya Ata\u00f6v\u2019i g\u00f6nderdi. yan\u0131nda durdu. Ata\u00f6v Moskova el\u00e7ili\u011fini yapm\u0131\u015f. Oraya Naz\u0131m Hikmet\u2019i almad\u0131lar dedi. Bu b\u00fcy\u00fck ba\u015far\u0131 diplomasidir falan filan diye. B\u00f6yle bir y\u00fcm\u00fc\u015fatmaya \u00e7al\u0131\u015ft\u0131lar. Fakat bir de se\u00e7ime alt\u0131 ay vard\u0131. Beni mahvettiler. Ama se\u00e7ildim.\u00c7\u0131kt\u0131k \u015feyden\u2026<\/p>\n
https:\/\/www.ermenihaber.am\/tr\/news\/2024\/11\/26\/G%C3%BCrb%C3%BCz-%C3%87apan-T%C3%BCrkiye-Ermenistan\/291165\u00a0<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Ermenihaber.am\u00a0kar\u015f\u0131l\u0131kl\u0131 \u00f6zel temsilcilerin atanmas\u0131yla Ermenistan ve T\u00fcrkiye aras\u0131nda ba\u015flayan diyalog s\u00fcreci konusunda T\u00fcrkiye\u2019deki siyasi \u00e7er\u00e7evelerinden farkl\u0131 isimlerle, sivil toplumu temsil eden \u015fah\u0131slarla r\u00f6portajlar ger\u00e7ekle\u015ftiriyor. T\u00fcrkiye\u2019deki siyasi \u00e7er\u00e7evelerin ve genel olarak toplumun bu konuda ne d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnd\u00fcklerini okuyucular\u0131m\u0131z\u0131n dikkatine sunmaya \u00e7al\u0131\u015faca\u011f\u0131z. Bu r\u00f6portaj\u0131 T\u00fcrk siyaset\u00e7i, eski Esenyurt Belediye Ba\u015fkan\u0131\u00a0G\u00fcrb\u00fcz \u00c7apan\u00a0ile yapt\u0131k. \u2014 2020 y\u0131l\u0131nda ya\u015fanan 44 g\u00fcnl\u00fck […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":7,"featured_media":81644,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[55,1,71],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-81643","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-ermenistan-turkiye","category-haberler","category-mulakatlar"],"yoast_head":"\n
G\u00fcrb\u00fcz \u00c7apan: "T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de derin bir Ermeni d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131\u011f\u0131 i\u015flemi\u015fler, s\u0131n\u0131rlar\u0131n a\u00e7\u0131lmas\u0131ndan \u00e7ok umutlu de\u011filim" - Bati Ermenistan Ve Bati Ermenileri Sorunlari Ara\u015ftirmalar Merkezi<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/akunq.net\/tr\/?p=81643\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"G\u00fcrb\u00fcz \u00c7apan: "T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de derin bir Ermeni d\u00fc\u015fmanl\u0131\u011f\u0131 i\u015flemi\u015fler, s\u0131n\u0131rlar\u0131n a\u00e7\u0131lmas\u0131ndan \u00e7ok umutlu de\u011filim" - Bati Ermenistan Ve Bati Ermenileri Sorunlari Ara\u015ftirmalar Merkezi\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Ermenihaber.am\u00a0kar\u015f\u0131l\u0131kl\u0131 \u00f6zel temsilcilerin atanmas\u0131yla Ermenistan ve T\u00fcrkiye aras\u0131nda ba\u015flayan diyalog s\u00fcreci konusunda T\u00fcrkiye\u2019deki siyasi \u00e7er\u00e7evelerinden farkl\u0131 isimlerle, sivil toplumu temsil eden \u015fah\u0131slarla r\u00f6portajlar ger\u00e7ekle\u015ftiriyor. T\u00fcrkiye\u2019deki siyasi \u00e7er\u00e7evelerin ve genel olarak toplumun bu konuda ne d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnd\u00fcklerini okuyucular\u0131m\u0131z\u0131n dikkatine sunmaya \u00e7al\u0131\u015faca\u011f\u0131z. 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