{"id":42513,"date":"2016-10-31T02:28:08","date_gmt":"2016-10-31T07:28:08","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/akunq.net\/tr\/?p=42513"},"modified":"2016-10-31T02:28:08","modified_gmt":"2016-10-31T07:28:08","slug":"dersim-38-hakikatini-agitlardan-dinlemek","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/akunq.net\/tr\/?p=42513","title":{"rendered":"Dersim \u201938\u2019 hakikatini a\u011f\u0131tlardan dinlemek"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"dersim\"<\/a>Z Yap\u0131m ve Kalan M\u00fczik taraf\u0131ndan yay\u0131mlanan \u2018Tertele: A\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n Diliyle Dersim \u201938\u2019 ba\u015fl\u0131kl\u0131 \u00e7al\u0131\u015fma, Dersim\u2019de ya\u015fanan k\u0131y\u0131m s\u0131ras\u0131nda ve sonras\u0131nda yerel halk\u0131n yakt\u0131\u011f\u0131 a\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131 ele al\u0131yor. Toplumun geni\u015f kesimleri taraf\u0131ndan h\u00e2l\u00e2 bilinmeyen bir k\u0131y\u0131m\u0131n ayr\u0131nt\u0131lar\u0131na \u0131\u015f\u0131k tutan bu hacimli \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmay\u0131, Cemal Ta\u015f, Nil\u00fcfer Salt\u0131k, ve kitab\u0131n \u0130ngilizce \u00e7evirilerini yapan Naz\u0131m Dikba\u015f\u2019la konu\u015ftuk<\/em><\/strong>.<\/em><\/p>\n

ALTU\u011e YILMAZ\u00a0<\/strong>
\naltugyilmaz@gmail.com<\/strong><\/p>\n

VARTAN ESTUKYAN\u00a0<\/strong>
\nestukyan@gmail.com<\/strong><\/p>\n

T\u00fcrkiye, yak\u0131n tarihi boyunca Ermeni Soyk\u0131r\u0131m\u0131\u2019ndan Dersim \u201938\u2019e, 6-7 Eyl\u00fcl\u2019den Varl\u0131k Vergisi\u2019ne bir\u00e7ok k\u0131y\u0131m ve pogrom uygulad\u0131, ancak bu utan\u00e7 vakalar\u0131yla y\u00fczle\u015fmedi, y\u00fczle\u015fmeye dair kararl\u0131 bir niyet de sergilemedi. Z Yap\u0131m ve Kalan M\u00fczik taraf\u0131ndan yay\u0131mlanan \u2018Tertele: A\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n Diliyle Dersim \u201938\u2019 ba\u015fl\u0131kl\u0131 \u00e7al\u0131\u015fma, Dersim\u2019de ya\u015fanan k\u0131y\u0131m s\u0131ras\u0131nda ve sonras\u0131nda yerel halk\u0131n yakt\u0131\u011f\u0131 a\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131 ele al\u0131yor. Yakla\u015f\u0131k 25 y\u0131ld\u0131r Dersim \u00fczerine s\u00f6zl\u00fc tarih \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131 yapan Cemal Ta\u015f ve yap\u0131mc\u0131 Nil\u00fcfer Salt\u0131k taraf\u0131ndan, \u00fc\u00e7 dilli olarak (K\u0131rmanc\u00e7a, T\u00fcrk\u00e7e, \u0130ngilizce) haz\u0131rlanan 500 sayfal\u0131k kitapta, \u00e7e\u015fitli g\u00f6rsel ve yaz\u0131l\u0131 belgelerin yan\u0131 s\u0131ra, a\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n ses kay\u0131tlar\u0131n\u0131n yer ald\u0131\u011f\u0131 \u00fc\u00e7 CD de bulunuyor. A\u011f\u0131t metinleri, a\u011f\u0131tlara konu olan olaylar\u0131n hik\u00e2yeleri, 1937-38\u2019deki harek\u00e2tlarda \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fclen Dersimlilerin listeleri ve b\u00f6lgenin ge\u00e7mi\u015fte ve g\u00fcn\u00fcm\u00fczde \u00e7ekilmi\u015f 1000\u2019e yak\u0131n foto\u011fraf\u0131yla, toplumun geni\u015f kesimleri taraf\u0131ndan h\u00e2l\u00e2 bilinmeyen bir k\u0131y\u0131m\u0131n ayr\u0131nt\u0131lar\u0131na \u0131\u015f\u0131k tutan bu hacimli \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmay\u0131, Cemal Ta\u015f, Nil\u00fcfer Salt\u0131k, ve kitab\u0131n \u0130ngilizce \u00e7evirilerini yapan Naz\u0131m Dikba\u015f\u2019la konu\u015ftuk.<\/p>\n

Kitap i\u00e7in saha ara\u015ft\u0131rmas\u0131na nas\u0131l ba\u015flad\u0131n\u0131z, ara\u015ft\u0131rmalar\u0131n\u0131z s\u0131ras\u0131nda ne t\u00fcr zorluklarla kar\u015f\u0131la\u015ft\u0131n\u0131z?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Nil\u00fcfer Salt\u0131k:<\/strong>\u00a0Kitab\u0131n 1937-38 Dersim katliam\u0131 s\u0131ras\u0131nda ve sonras\u0131nda, olaylara tan\u0131k olan, hayatta kalmay\u0131 ba\u015faran Dersimlilerin yakt\u0131\u011f\u0131 a\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131 bir araya getirmesini istiyorduk. Kitap \u00fczerinde \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmaya ba\u015flad\u0131\u011f\u0131m\u0131zda, elimizde Dersim\u2019le ilgili en geni\u015f belge ve foto\u011fraf ar\u015fivi, yani Hasan Salt\u0131k\u2019\u0131n ar\u015fivi vard\u0131. Cemal Ta\u015f\u2019\u0131n s\u00f6zl\u00fc tarih ar\u015fivi ise, bir ses ve metin ar\u015fivi olarak benzersizdi. \u0130nsanlar\u0131n ku\u015faktan ku\u015fa\u011fa aktar\u0131lan ac\u0131lar\u0131n\u0131 da kitaba dahil edebilmek i\u00e7in a\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n yak\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131 b\u00f6lgelerin g\u00fcncel foto\u011fraflar\u0131n\u0131n da kitapta yer almas\u0131n\u0131 istedik. Kitapta 33 a\u011f\u0131t var, ancak Dersim\u2019de \u00e7ok daha fazla yer gezdik ve ara\u015ft\u0131rd\u0131k. A\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n yak\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131 33 b\u00f6lgeyi haritada i\u015faretleyerek, kitaba Tertele haf\u0131zas\u0131n\u0131n bir de haritas\u0131n\u0131 eklemi\u015f olduk. Dersim Katliam\u0131\u2019n\u0131 bir hik\u00e2ye gibi i\u015flemek istemedik, amac\u0131m\u0131z katliamlar\u0131n i\u015flendi\u011fi ger\u00e7ek noktalar\u0131 belirterek o yerleri bug\u00fcn\u00fcn insan\u0131na g\u00f6stermekti. Bu haritay\u0131 \u00f6nemsiyoruz, \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc bu, orada ya\u015fananlar\u0131n kan\u0131t\u0131.<\/p>\n

Dersim, zor bir co\u011frafya. Hem co\u011frafi zorluklar\u0131, hem de b\u00f6lgedeki hareketlili\u011fin getirdi\u011fi zorluklar\u0131n hepsini ya\u015fad\u0131k. Cemal belki orada ya\u015fananlara al\u0131\u015fk\u0131n ama ben ancak birka\u00e7 kez gittikten sonra biraz al\u0131\u015fabildim, bu hareketlili\u011fin oras\u0131 i\u00e7in bir rutin oldu\u011funu kabul edebildim.<\/p>\n

Kaydetmek i\u00e7in birine a\u011f\u0131t okutmak kolay bir i\u015f olmasa gerek. Bu sorunun \u00fcstesinden nas\u0131l geldiniz?<\/strong><\/p>\n

NS:<\/strong>\u00a0Biz bu kitap i\u00e7in d\u00f6rt y\u0131ld\u0131r u\u011fra\u015f\u0131yoruz, ancak bu kay\u0131tlar sadece son d\u00f6rt y\u0131la ait de\u011fil. Cemal\u2019in s\u00f6zl\u00fc tarih \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmas\u0131 25 y\u0131la dayanan bir eme\u011fin \u00fcr\u00fcn\u00fc; oradan kitaba i\u015flediklerimiz var. Bu kitab\u0131 haz\u0131rlarken birlikte kaydetti\u011fimiz a\u011f\u0131tlar da oldu. Bu tip travmalar ya\u015fam\u0131\u015f insanlara bir \u015fey anlatt\u0131rmak, s\u00f6yletmek \u00e7ok zor; bunun i\u00e7in bir g\u00fcven ili\u015fkisi kurmak gerekiyor. Cemal, Dersim\u2019le ilgili \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131 vesilesiyle, b\u00f6lgede hayat\u0131n\u0131 bu konuya adam\u0131\u015f biri olarak tan\u0131n\u0131yor. Dersim\u2019de kap\u0131lar\u0131 a\u00e7an isim o oldu; onun \u00f6zverisi ve \u00e7abalar\u0131yla insanlarla konu\u015fabildik. Dersimliler misafirperverdirler, evlerine gitti\u011finizde sizi reddetmezler ama \u201937-\u201938 gibi konular\u0131 konu\u015fmak i\u00e7in Cemal gibi bir referansla gitmek gerekiyor.<\/p>\n

Cemal Ta\u015f:\u00a0<\/strong>Kitab\u0131n haz\u0131rlan\u0131\u015f s\u00fcrecinde, sahaya gitti\u011fimizde kimseye \u201cBize bir a\u011f\u0131t okuyun\u201d demedik. Bu \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmadaki CD\u2019lerde yer alan a\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131 s\u00f6yleyenlerden baz\u0131lar\u0131 art\u0131k ya\u015fam\u0131yor, hatta hi\u00e7 g\u00f6rmedi\u011fimiz insanlar da var. 70\u2019li y\u0131llarda yap\u0131lm\u0131\u015f kay\u0131tlar\u0131 arkada\u015flar\u0131m\u0131z\u0131n \u00f6zel ar\u015fivlerinden ald\u0131k. Bunlar\u0131n yan\u0131 s\u0131ra birka\u00e7\u0131n\u0131 25 y\u0131ll\u0131k \u00e7al\u0131\u015fma s\u00fcrecinde, birka\u00e7\u0131n\u0131 da kitap vesilesiyle kaydettik.<\/p>\n

Ben s\u00f6zl\u00fc tarih \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmas\u0131 yaparken \u00f6nce ki\u015finin hayat hik\u00e2yesini dinliyorum. Hik\u00e2yenin bir b\u00f6l\u00fcm\u00fcnde \u201938\u2019i anlat\u0131r ve \u201cKatliamla ilgili bir a\u011f\u0131t var\u201d derse, okumas\u0131n\u0131 rica ediyorum. E\u011fer psikolojisi o an i\u00e7in elveri\u015fliyse s\u00f6yl\u00fcyor zaten. Ama tabii, herkes her an a\u011f\u0131t okuyamaz. Nil\u00fcfer\u2019in de belirtti\u011fi gibi, g\u00fcven ili\u015fkisi kurmak \u015fart. Aksi halde neden kaydetti\u011fimizi \u00f6\u011frenmek istiyor insanlar. Buna \u00f6zellikle ya\u015fl\u0131larda rastl\u0131yoruz. Baz\u0131lar\u0131, \u201c\u0130stismar i\u00e7in kullanacaks\u0131n\u0131z yaralar\u0131m\u0131z\u0131 de\u015fmeyin\u201d diye uyar\u0131da bulunuyor. Sizi kendilerine yak\u0131n bulduklar\u0131 zaman ise hi\u00e7bir \u015feyi saklam\u0131yorlar.<\/p>\n

Dersim a\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n\u0131n, bast\u0131r\u0131lan, y\u00fcksek sesle dile getirilmekten ka\u00e7\u0131n\u0131lan, \u00e7ocuklardan saklanmaya \u00e7al\u0131\u015f\u0131lan bir haf\u0131zay\u0131 ta\u015f\u0131d\u0131\u011f\u0131 s\u00f6ylenebilir mi?<\/strong><\/p>\n

NS:\u00a0<\/strong>Evet. Kitap da, suskun kal\u0131nan bu konuda a\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n ne s\u00f6yledi\u011fine odaklan\u0131yor. A\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n ger\u00e7e\u011fi arama \u00e7abas\u0131 i\u00e7inde olan insanlara bir rehber olabilece\u011fini d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnd\u00fck. A\u011f\u0131tlarda aktar\u0131lan ger\u00e7ek, kitaptaki foto\u011fraf ve belgelerle de destekleniyor; s\u00f6zlerdeki g\u00f6ndermelerle elimizde tuttu\u011fumuz belgeler \u00f6rt\u00fc\u015f\u00fcyor. Yapmak istedi\u011fimiz de buydu.<\/p>\n

A\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n tarih\u00ee ger\u00e7eklerle \u00f6rt\u00fc\u015fmedi\u011fi oluyor mu?<\/strong><\/p>\n

CT:<\/strong>\u00a0Ben hi\u00e7 b\u00f6yle bir \u00f6rnekle kar\u015f\u0131la\u015fmad\u0131m. A\u011f\u0131tlarda, genel anlamda, halk olan biteni anlat\u0131yor. Son ku\u015fak ile a\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131 yakan ku\u015fak aras\u0131nda \u015f\u00f6yle bir fark var: G\u00fcn\u00fcm\u00fczde ya\u015fl\u0131lar \u00e7ocuklar\u0131n\u0131 veya torunlar\u0131n\u0131 korumak i\u00e7g\u00fcd\u00fcs\u00fcyle susuyorlar. Fakat ilkesel olarak, Dersim ba\u011flam\u0131nda, a\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n tarih\u00ee ger\u00e7ekleri anlatt\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 s\u00f6yleyebiliriz.<\/p>\n

Naz\u0131m Dikba\u015f:<\/strong>\u00a0A\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n ifade bi\u00e7imi, bizim bug\u00fcn yaz\u0131l\u0131 veya s\u00f6zl\u00fc dilde hemen alg\u0131layabildi\u011fimiz bir bi\u00e7im de\u011fil. Bunun yan\u0131 s\u0131ra, K\u0131rman\u00e7ca\u2019n\u0131n imge d\u00fcnyas\u0131, baz\u0131 simgelere verdi\u011fi anlam T\u00fcrk\u00e7edekinden \u00e7ok farkl\u0131. A\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131 \u0130ngilizceye terc\u00fcme ederken bir\u00e7ok kez Cemal\u2019e \u201cBurada ne demek istiyor?\u201d diye sormak durumunda kald\u0131m; \u00f6zellikle de Dersim\u2019in simge evreniyle ilgili olarak, ba\u015f\u0131n\u0131n etini yedim. O d\u00fcnya, ac\u0131lar\u0131n\u0131 ifade ederken \u00e7ok ba\u015fka bir ruhsal d\u00fcnyay\u0131 da anlat\u0131yor. Bu, hem T\u00fcrk\u00e7e hem \u0130ngilizce \u00e7evirideki as\u0131l zorluk oldu. Kitab\u0131 \u00f6nemli k\u0131lan \u00f6zelliklerden biri, hem o dili vermesi, hem de her a\u011f\u0131d\u0131n bahsetti\u011fi hik\u00e2yeyi somut olgularla anlatmas\u0131. Bu, okura ikisini kar\u015f\u0131la\u015ft\u0131rma imk\u00e2n\u0131 veriyor. A\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n yak\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131 dili bug\u00fcn K\u0131rman\u00e7ca bilen ve konu\u015fan birine dahi dinletseniz tamam\u0131n\u0131 anlamakta zorlanaca\u011f\u0131n\u0131 d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcn\u00fcyorum.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Dersim Katliam\u0131\u2019n\u0131 planlay\u0131p uygulayanlar\u0131n saiklerinden birinin de, 1915\u2019te ba\u015flanan \u2018i\u015fi\u2019 tamamlamak oldu\u011fu s\u00f6yleniyor. A\u011f\u0131tlarda buna dair ipu\u00e7lar\u0131na rastlan\u0131yor mu?<\/strong><\/p>\n

CT:<\/strong>\u00a0Evet, kitapta bunun bir \u00f6rne\u011fi var. \u2018La\u00e7 Deresi\u2019 adl\u0131 a\u011f\u0131d\u0131n dizelerinde kabaca \u015fu anlat\u0131l\u0131yor: \u0130hanet etmeyin, bizim defterimiz d\u00fcr\u00fcld\u00fckten sonra s\u0131ra size gelecek, sizin ak\u0131betiniz de Ermenilerinki gibi olacak. Bir ba\u015fka a\u011f\u0131tta da, yine \u00f6nceki bir ba\u015fka katliama, Sivas Ko\u00e7giri\u2019ye g\u00f6nderme yap\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131na rastl\u0131yoruz.<\/p>\n

Kitapta, k\u0131y\u0131m\u0131n oldu\u011fu b\u00f6lgede yak\u0131lan a\u011f\u0131tlarda, \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fclenlerin \u2013en az\u0131ndan hat\u0131rland\u0131\u011f\u0131 kadar\u0131yla\u2013 isimlerinin listesi de bulunuyor. K\u0131y\u0131mda \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fclenlerin isimleri, \u00e7e\u015fitli kaynaklarda, ayr\u0131 ayr\u0131 yer al\u0131yor; hepsini bir arada, olabildi\u011fince bir b\u00fct\u00fcn olarak ilk kez bu kitap bir araya getiriyor. O isimler aras\u0131nda bir\u00e7ok Ermeni ismi de var. \u00d6rne\u011fin, Har Ailesi\u2019nden Manuse ve Misak isimlerini g\u00f6rmek m\u00fcmk\u00fcn.<\/p>\n

ND:\u00a0<\/strong>Tarihsel bir ba\u011f da var. Dersim\u2019de da\u011fa \u00e7\u0131kmak zorunda kalan bir\u00e7ok silahl\u0131 a\u015firet \u00fcyesinin Ko\u00e7giri deneyimi var. A\u011f\u0131tlarda ise iki ayr\u0131 terteleden bahsediliyor: Ermeni tertelesi ve Zaza tertelesi. B\u00f6lgede an\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131 ad\u0131yla \u2018Ermeni Tertelesi\u2019nin Dersim\u2019de derin izler b\u0131rakt\u0131\u011f\u0131 a\u015fik\u00e2r.<\/p>\n

CT:<\/strong>\u00a0Dersim \u201938\u2019i yorumlarken bir\u00e7ok gerek\u00e7e bulmak m\u00fcmk\u00fcn, bu politik tercihe g\u00f6re, ya da g\u00f6n\u00fclden ge\u00e7ene g\u00f6re \u015fekillenebilir. Ancak a\u011f\u0131tlar \u00fczerinden bak\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131nda esas hedefin Dersim oldu\u011fu, dolay\u0131s\u0131yla, Kerbela\u2019ya g\u00f6nderme yaparak, bunun bir Alevi soyk\u0131r\u0131m\u0131 oldu\u011fu vurgusunu a\u00e7\u0131k\u00e7a g\u00f6r\u00fcyoruz. Aleviler k\u0131r\u0131l\u0131rken, onlarla i\u00e7 i\u00e7e ya\u015fayan Ermenilerin de k\u0131r\u0131ld\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 s\u00f6ylemek m\u00fcmk\u00fcn.<\/p>\n

Dersim\u2019de gen\u00e7lerin a\u011f\u0131tlarla ili\u015fkisi nas\u0131l? Bir merak ya da ilgiden s\u00f6z edilebilir mi?<\/strong><\/p>\n

CT:<\/strong>\u00a0Gen\u00e7lerin g\u00f6sterdi\u011fi ilgide, bu meselenin ger\u00e7ekli\u011finden ziyade politik y\u00f6n\u00fc a\u011f\u0131r bas\u0131yor. Gen\u00e7ler d\u00fcnya meseleleriyle ilgili olduklar\u0131 i\u00e7in bu meselelere \u00e7ok duyarl\u0131 ya da ilgili olmad\u0131klar\u0131n\u0131 d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcn\u00fcyorum. \u00d6rne\u011fin, Dersimlilerin organize etti\u011fi etkinliklerde Seyd R\u0131za\u2019n\u0131n h\u00fcmanist kimli\u011fini anlatt\u0131\u011f\u0131m zaman \u00e7ok \u015fa\u015f\u0131r\u0131yorlar, \u201c\u00d6yle \u015fey mi olur!\u201d diye tepki g\u00f6steriyorlar. \u201cO bir generaldi, silahland\u0131, ku\u015fand\u0131 ve ordunun alaylar\u0131n\u0131 yok etti\u201d dememi bekliyorlar ama oran\u0131n ger\u00e7ekli\u011fini anlatt\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131zda i\u015fin rengi de\u011fi\u015fiyor.<\/p>\n

Dersim\u2019de toplumsal bir haf\u0131za yok edildi. Sadece co\u011frafyan\u0131n \u00fczerindeki insanlar de\u011fildi yok edilen; bu insanlar fizik\u00ee olarak ortadan kald\u0131r\u0131ld\u0131lar, sa\u011f kalanlar ba\u015fka illere s\u00fcr\u00fcld\u00fcler, mallar\u0131na, hayvanlar\u0131na, k\u0131ymetli e\u015fyalar\u0131na el kondu. Bu insanlar\u0131n inan\u00e7 kurumlar\u0131, sosyal kurumlar\u0131 yok edildi, k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fc, dili elinden al\u0131nd\u0131; 70 y\u0131l sonra ne beklenebilir ki… Gen\u00e7lerin benim gibi veya annem gibi hissetmesini beklemiyorum. Benim \u00e7ocu\u011fum bu meseleye benim kadar ilgili de\u011fil. Beni anlamad\u0131klar\u0131 i\u00e7in bunu dert ediyorum. Sonra da \u015funu diyorum: Bunlar bu i\u015fi ba\u015farm\u0131\u015flar. Benim \u00e7ocu\u011fum bu konuya benim kadar ilgili de\u011filse, bu i\u015f ba\u015far\u0131yla yap\u0131lm\u0131\u015f.<\/p>\n

ND:<\/strong>\u00a0Haf\u0131za \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131n\u0131n, bir soyk\u0131r\u0131m\u0131, terteleyi anabilmenin kurallar\u0131ndan biri \u015fudur: Failin, yani devletin, yapm\u0131\u015f oldu\u011fu k\u0131r\u0131m\u0131 tan\u0131m\u0131\u015f olmas\u0131 gerekir, en az\u0131ndan bir bar\u0131\u015fma s\u00fcrecine girilmi\u015f olmas\u0131 gerekir. Oysa biz b\u00f6yle bir durumun yak\u0131n\u0131ndan bile ge\u00e7mi\u015f de\u011filiz. Dolay\u0131s\u0131yla, bug\u00fcnk\u00fc gen\u00e7lerden iki tarafa birden bakmas\u0131n\u0131 istiyoruz. Hem \u015fu \u00e2na ve gelece\u011fe bak\u0131p \u201cNe oluyor?\u201d diyecek, hem de 1915\u2019e, 1938\u2019e bakacak ve \u201cNe olmu\u015ftu?\u201d diyecek. Bu, gen\u00e7lerden \u00e7ok \u015fey beklemek demek. 38\u2019e d\u00f6nd\u00fc\u011f\u00fcm\u00fczde, biz bu kitapta hat\u0131rlanabilen ve hakk\u0131nda a\u011f\u0131t yak\u0131labilen co\u011frafyay\u0131 ele ald\u0131k. Halbuki k\u0131y\u0131m\u0131 en a\u011f\u0131r ya\u015fayan b\u00f6lgelere dair hi\u00e7bir \u015fey bilmiyoruz, \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc hayatta kalan kimse yok, dolay\u0131s\u0131yla a\u011f\u0131t da yok. \u00d6nemli eksiklerimizden biri de, yak\u0131n tarih olmas\u0131na ra\u011fmen di\u011fer k\u0131r\u0131mlarla ba\u011flant\u0131lar\u0131 yeterince ara\u015ft\u0131r\u0131lm\u0131\u015f olmamas\u0131. Dolay\u0131s\u0131yla, aktar\u0131lan bir travma var. Bir ku\u015fak di\u011ferine ya s\u00f6ylememeyi tercih ediyor ya da b\u00fcy\u00fcterek, kahramanla\u015ft\u0131rarak s\u00f6yl\u00fcyor. Orada da \u015fu sorunu ya\u015f\u0131yoruz: Resm\u00ee tarihin ne kadar sorunlu oldu\u011funu biliyoruz, bundan ya bahsetmiyor ya da \u201cBunlar isyanc\u0131yd\u0131\u201d, g\u00fcn\u00fcm\u00fcz s\u00f6ylemiyle \u201cTer\u00f6ristti\u201d diye bahsediyor. Ama, resm\u00ee sol tarih de bunu anlatm\u0131yor. Resm\u00ee sol tarihin kal\u0131pla\u015ft\u0131rd\u0131\u011f\u0131 s\u00f6ylemle de m\u00fccadele edilmesi gerekiyor.<\/p>\n

NS:<\/strong>\u00a0Biz bu kitapla 30 ya\u015f alt\u0131ndakilere bir kaynak sunmu\u015f oluyoruz asl\u0131nda. Bilenler, duyanlar var elbette ama onun d\u0131\u015f\u0131nda kalan insanlara da bir kaynak sa\u011fl\u0131yor Tertele. A\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n tarihsel anlamda \u00fc\u00e7 \u00f6nemli i\u015flevi var. Birincisi, Dersim Katliam\u0131\u2019n\u0131n insani a\u011f\u0131rl\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131, araya hi\u00e7bir \u015fey katmadan, t\u00fcm \u00e7\u0131plakl\u0131\u011f\u0131 ve g\u00fcndelik ger\u00e7ekli\u011fiyle yans\u0131t\u0131yor, bug\u00fcne ta\u015f\u0131yorlar. \u0130kincisi, resm\u00ee tarihin \u00e7arp\u0131tt\u0131\u011f\u0131, gayriresm\u00ee tarihin ise kimi zaman abartt\u0131\u011f\u0131 Dersim ger\u00e7e\u011fini t\u00fcm samimiyetiyle yans\u0131t\u0131yorlar. \u00dc\u00e7\u00fcnc\u00fcs\u00fc ise, insan hik\u00e2yelerinden yola \u00e7\u0131kt\u0131klar\u0131ndan, yaz\u0131l\u0131 ve s\u00f6zl\u00fc tarih \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131 i\u00e7in ilk elden, k\u0131ymetli bir kaynak olu\u015fturuyorlar. Bu y\u00fczden, bu a\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n yak\u0131lmas\u0131na sebep olan olaylar\u0131n ge\u00e7ti\u011fi yerleri tek tek ziyaret ettik, a\u011f\u0131tlarla Dersim co\u011frafyas\u0131 aras\u0131ndaki ba\u011f\u0131, \u00e7ekti\u011fimiz foto\u011fraflarla da kurmaya \u00e7al\u0131\u015ft\u0131k. B\u00f6ylelikle o ac\u0131 olaylar\u0131n ge\u00e7ti\u011fi yerleri bug\u00fcnk\u00fc halleriyle de okurlara, \u00f6zellikle de gen\u00e7lere ve gelecek ku\u015faklara aktarm\u0131\u015f oluyoruz.<\/p>\n

Kitab\u0131n, Dersim \u201938\u2019in hakikatine ula\u015fmak isteyenler i\u00e7in, o karanl\u0131\u011fa bir yol a\u00e7aca\u011f\u0131 g\u00f6r\u00fc\u015f\u00fcndeyim.<\/p>\n

Halvoriye (Kar\u015f\u0131lar) k\u00f6yl\u00fcleri \u00f6l\u00fcme g\u00f6t\u00fcr\u00fcl\u00fcrken, 14 A\u011fustos 1938 (s. 336)<\/p>\n

\u00d6zellikle son d\u00f6nemde, Dersim\u2019in geleneksel m\u00fczikleri dendi\u011finde, neredeyse sadece a\u011f\u0131tlar geliyor akla. Ba\u015fka m\u00fczikal formlar, ninniler, d\u00fc\u011f\u00fcnlerde \u00e7al\u0131n\u0131p s\u00f6ylenen halaylar yok mu bu geni\u015f co\u011frafyada?<\/strong><\/p>\n

CT:\u00a0<\/strong>Ger\u00e7ekten de, \u00e7ok fazla halaya rastlamak m\u00fcmk\u00fcn de\u011fil Dersim\u2019de. \u0130lgin\u00e7tir, d\u00fc\u011f\u00fcnlerde bile keyifli m\u00fczikler Dersimlileri \u00e7ok a\u00e7maz! Kendi \u00e7ocuklu\u011fumdan biliyorum; ille de a\u011flamam\u0131z laz\u0131m, d\u00fc\u011f\u00fcnde bile… Herhangi bir bulu\u015fmada da, masan\u0131n etraf\u0131nda oturuyoruz, a\u011f\u0131t yak\u0131yoruz, ac\u0131l\u0131 \u015feyler s\u00f6yl\u00fcyoruz. Psikolojide bunun bir a\u00e7\u0131klamas\u0131 vard\u0131r mutlaka. Ninnilere de \u00e7ok s\u0131k rastland\u0131\u011f\u0131 s\u00f6ylenemez. Tabii, bu i\u015fe bizim yeti\u015fememi\u015f olmam\u0131z, yani ninnilerin kay\u0131t alt\u0131na al\u0131namam\u0131\u015f olmas\u0131 da m\u00fcmk\u00fcn. Ninniler \u00fczerine \u00e7ok ara\u015ft\u0131rma yapt\u0131m, ancak bir-iki \u00f6rnek d\u0131\u015f\u0131nda bir \u015fey bulamad\u0131m. Ma\u011farada \u00e7ocu\u011funu bo\u011fmak zorunda kalan bir annenin \u00e7ocu\u011funa okudu\u011fu bir ninni var ama bunu s\u00f6yleyen kimseyi bulamad\u0131\u011f\u0131m i\u00e7in kaydetme f\u0131rsat\u0131m da olmad\u0131.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cAk\u0131betimiz Ermenilerin ak\u0131betidir\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n

Dersim Katliam\u0131\u2019na ili\u015fkin a\u011f\u0131tlarda, 1915 ve sonras\u0131nda\u00a0Ermenilerin ya\u015fad\u0131klar\u0131na g\u00f6nderme yapan ifadelere s\u0131k rastlan\u0131yor.<\/p>\n

Harek\u00e2t s\u0131ras\u0131nda, \u00e7o\u011fu Demenu ve Khalu a\u015firetlerine mensup bir\u00e7ok \u00e7ocuk, gen\u00e7 ve ya\u015fl\u0131, La\u00e7 Deresi vadisinde bulunan ma\u011faralara s\u0131\u011f\u0131nm\u0131\u015f. Derin u\u00e7urum ve kayal\u0131klardan olu\u015fan vadide, binlerce insan, kimyasal gaz ve bombalarla katledilmi\u015f. Bu katliam hakk\u0131nda, Weliy\u00ea Wu\u015fen\u00ea Yimami taraf\u0131ndan yak\u0131lan a\u011f\u0131t, kitaptaki kay\u0131ttta S\u0131lo Q\u0131c (S\u00fcleyman Do\u011fan) taraf\u0131ndan keman e\u015fli\u011finde seslendirilmi\u015f. 1921\u2019de M\u0131lo k\u00f6y\u00fcnde d\u00fcnyaya gelen S\u0131lo Q\u0131c, \u00f6l\u00fcmden, harek\u00e2ta kat\u0131lan askerleri e\u011flendirmek i\u00e7in keman \u00e7almas\u0131 sayesinde kurtulabilmi\u015f. \u2018Der\u00ea La\u00e7i\u2019 (La\u00e7 Deresi) a\u011f\u0131d\u0131ndan bir b\u00f6l\u00fcm:<\/p>\n

Qemer\u00ea Heseni ma\u011fara \u00f6n\u00fcnde vurulmu\u015f,\u00a0<\/em>
\nyi\u011fidim, aslanlar\u0131n aslan\u0131<\/em>
\nHemed A\u011fa\u00ea C\u0131vraili ordunun etraf\u0131nda f\u0131r d\u00f6n\u00fcyor<\/em>
\n\u201c\u00e7at\u0131\u015f\u0131n \u00e7at\u0131\u015fal\u0131m, \u00f6l\u00fcm yi\u011fitler i\u00e7indir<\/em>
\nUs\u00ean A\u011fa ile ikimiz sa\u011f kald\u0131\u011f\u0131m\u0131z s\u00fcrece\u00a0<\/em>
\nda\u011f\u0131 asla a\u015firet h\u00fck\u00fcmet ittifak\u0131na vermeyiz\u201d diyor<\/em>
\nHes\u00ea Khali\u2019yi sorarsan\u0131z, be\u015fliyi* omzunda ta\u015f\u0131yor<\/em>
\nY\u0131v\u0131s, Pul\u00ea Pir Xatune kar\u015f\u0131s\u0131nda mevzi tutmu\u015f<\/em>
\nhem \u00e7at\u0131\u015f\u0131yor, hem \u015fark\u0131 s\u00f6yl\u00fcyor<\/em>
\nordu komutan\u0131 Anavare kar\u015f\u0131s\u0131nda durmu\u015f<\/em>
\nd\u00fcrb\u00fcnden bak\u0131yor:<\/em>
\n\u201cY\u0131v\u0131s\u2019\u0131n sesi geliyor<\/em>
\nacep hakk\u0131m\u0131zda neler s\u00f6yl\u00fcyor\u201d diyor<\/em>
\nHemed A\u011fa\u00ea C\u0131vrail A\u011fay diyor, \u201c\u00fc\u00e7 ordu s\u00fcrm\u00fc\u015fler \u00fczerimize<\/em>
\nbiliyorsunuz ki sonu\u00e7ta din \u0130slamd\u0131r\u201d\u00a0<\/em>
\nY\u0131v\u0131s diyor, \u201csen \u00fc\u00e7 ordu s\u00fcrm\u00fc\u015fs\u00fcn \u00fczerimize<\/em>
\nHakk\u2019\u0131n izniyle \u00e7at\u0131\u015faca\u011f\u0131z, kolay kolay Da\u011f\u0131 size vermeyece\u011fiz\u00a0<\/em>
\nordundan da bir nefer bile sa\u011f koymayaca\u011f\u0131m<\/em>
\na\u015firetlere de deyin, onlar biz Demenu a\u015firetini bertaraf ettiklerinde<\/em>
\nyak\u0131n zamanda ak\u0131betiniz Ermenilerin ak\u0131betidir\u201d diyor<\/em>
\n* \u2018Alman be\u015flisi\u2019 olarak bilinen bir mavzer<\/em><\/p>\n

Kitapta yer verilen, \u2018A\u011fler\u00ea Pul\u00eamuriye\u2019 (P\u00fcl\u00fcm\u00fcr \u0130leri Gelenleri) adl\u0131 bir a\u011f\u0131d\u0131n son b\u00f6l\u00fcm\u00fcnde de \u2018Ermenilerin ak\u0131beti\u2019nden s\u00f6z ediliyor:<\/p>\n

Ali\u2019m, M\u0131stafa\u2019m, \u0130smail\u2019im \u00e7e\u015fmedir<\/em>
\nbu nas\u0131l k\u00f6r k\u00f6pek kanundur be karde\u015fim<\/em>
\nbu nas\u0131l bir d\u00fczendir aram\u0131zda kurulmu\u015f<\/em>
\nbir baba ile iki o\u011fulun d\u00fc\u011f\u00fcn\u00fc, bizde ayn\u0131 g\u00fcn asla yap\u0131lmam\u0131\u015f<\/em>
\nya karde\u015fim, ya\u015fad\u0131\u011f\u0131m\u0131z\u0131 Hak kimsenin kap\u0131s\u0131na koymas\u0131n<\/em>
\nbu kez ak\u0131betimiz Ermeni ak\u0131betidir<\/em>
\nhay\u0131r yeme\u011fi, bir top kefen, bir kal\u0131p sabun kimseye nasip olmam\u0131\u015f<\/em>
\nah ah! hi\u00e7birinin cenazesi gelmemi\u015f, kap\u0131s\u0131n\u0131n \u00f6n\u00fcnde<\/em>
\ntene\u015fire konmak nasip olmam\u0131\u015f<\/em>
\nCenab-\u0131 Hak\u2019tan dile\u011fim o ki<\/em>
\non yedi d\u00fcvel anla\u015fs\u0131n<\/em>
\nbir g\u00fcn Ankara\u2019da<\/em>
\n\u015fu gavurun tepesinde bitsin<\/em><\/p>\n

\u00d6l\u00fcm listelerinde\u00a0Ermeni isimleri<\/strong><\/p>\n

Kitapta, \u00e7e\u015fitli kaynaklar \u0131\u015f\u0131\u011f\u0131nda, farkl\u0131 b\u00f6lgelerde \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fclenlerin listeleri, ki\u015filerin kimliklerine dair bilgi notlar\u0131yla birlikte sunulmu\u015f.<\/p>\n

X\u0131d\u00ea Al\u00ea \u0130sme (S\u00fcrg\u00fcn ve K\u0131r\u0131m) adl\u0131 a\u011f\u0131tla ilgili b\u00f6l\u00fcm\u00fcnde (s. 287) yer alan bir liste:<\/p>\n

Viyaleke\u2019de (\u015eine) \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fclen Ermeniler:
\n1. Vartige: Dul bir Ermeni kad\u0131nd\u0131
\n2. Ad\u0131 hat\u0131rlanamayan bir erkek: Vartige\u2019nin gen\u00e7 o\u011fluydu
\n3. Serk: Vartige\u2019nin o\u011fluydu.
\n4. M\u0131re: Vartige\u2019nin geliniydi
\n5. Mame: Vartige\u2019nin k\u0131z torunuydu
\n6. Mar Xatune: Vartige\u2019nin k\u0131z\u0131yd\u0131
\n7. Obann\u00eas: Vartige\u2019nin damad\u0131yd\u0131
\n8. \u00c7aq: Ta\u015f ustas\u0131yd\u0131
\n9. Abedig: Davulcuydu
\n10. Obann\u00eas: Hem duvar ustas\u0131 hem zurnac\u0131yd\u0131
\n11. Agop
\n12. Gar\u00ea Pasali: Kalayc\u0131 ve palanc\u0131 ustas\u0131yd\u0131<\/p>\n

\u2018Der\u00ea Meyitu\u2019 (Cesetler Deresi) adl\u0131 a\u011f\u0131tla ilgili b\u00f6l\u00fcmde (s. 321) yer verilen iki liste:<\/p>\n

Har Ailesi\u2019nden:
\n1. Har: Yeti\u015fkin bir Ermeni\u2019ydi, Delali ailesinin marabas\u0131yd\u0131
\n2. Manuse: Har\u2019\u0131n e\u015fiydi
\n3. M\u0131sag: Har ile M\u0131sag\u2019\u0131n gen\u00e7 o\u011fluydu
\nMark Ailesi\u2019nden:
\n1. Mark: \u0130ki e\u015fli bir adamd\u0131
\n2. Marte: Mark\u2019\u0131n e\u015fiydi
\n3. Alte: Mark\u2019\u0131n ikinci e\u015fiydi. 1915 Ermeni Tertelesi\u2019nde ba\u015fka bir yerden ka\u00e7\u0131p gelmi\u015fti.<\/p>\n

http:\/\/www.agos.com.tr\/tr\/yazi\/16864\/dersim-38-hakikatini-agitlardan-dinlemek<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Z Yap\u0131m ve Kalan M\u00fczik taraf\u0131ndan yay\u0131mlanan \u2018Tertele: A\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n Diliyle Dersim \u201938\u2019 ba\u015fl\u0131kl\u0131 \u00e7al\u0131\u015fma, Dersim\u2019de ya\u015fanan k\u0131y\u0131m s\u0131ras\u0131nda ve sonras\u0131nda yerel halk\u0131n yakt\u0131\u011f\u0131 a\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131 ele al\u0131yor. Toplumun geni\u015f kesimleri taraf\u0131ndan h\u00e2l\u00e2 bilinmeyen bir k\u0131y\u0131m\u0131n ayr\u0131nt\u0131lar\u0131na \u0131\u015f\u0131k tutan bu hacimli \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmay\u0131, Cemal Ta\u015f, Nil\u00fcfer Salt\u0131k, ve kitab\u0131n \u0130ngilizce \u00e7evirilerini yapan Naz\u0131m Dikba\u015f\u2019la konu\u015ftuk. ALTU\u011e YILMAZ\u00a0 altugyilmaz@gmail.com […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":7,"featured_media":42514,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1,71],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-42513","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-haberler","category-mulakatlar"],"yoast_head":"\nDersim \u201938\u2019 hakikatini a\u011f\u0131tlardan dinlemek - Bati Ermenistan Ve Bati Ermenileri Sorunlari Ara\u015ftirmalar Merkezi<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/akunq.net\/tr\/?p=42513\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Dersim \u201938\u2019 hakikatini a\u011f\u0131tlardan dinlemek - Bati Ermenistan Ve Bati Ermenileri Sorunlari Ara\u015ftirmalar Merkezi\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Z Yap\u0131m ve Kalan M\u00fczik taraf\u0131ndan yay\u0131mlanan \u2018Tertele: A\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131n Diliyle Dersim \u201938\u2019 ba\u015fl\u0131kl\u0131 \u00e7al\u0131\u015fma, Dersim\u2019de ya\u015fanan k\u0131y\u0131m s\u0131ras\u0131nda ve sonras\u0131nda yerel halk\u0131n yakt\u0131\u011f\u0131 a\u011f\u0131tlar\u0131 ele al\u0131yor. Toplumun geni\u015f kesimleri taraf\u0131ndan h\u00e2l\u00e2 bilinmeyen bir k\u0131y\u0131m\u0131n ayr\u0131nt\u0131lar\u0131na \u0131\u015f\u0131k tutan bu hacimli \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmay\u0131, Cemal Ta\u015f, Nil\u00fcfer Salt\u0131k, ve kitab\u0131n \u0130ngilizce \u00e7evirilerini yapan Naz\u0131m Dikba\u015f\u2019la konu\u015ftuk. 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