{"id":38828,"date":"2016-02-27T03:51:02","date_gmt":"2016-02-27T08:51:02","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/akunq.net\/tr\/?p=38828"},"modified":"2016-02-27T03:51:02","modified_gmt":"2016-02-27T08:51:02","slug":"dersim-cografyasinin-ucsuz-bucaksiz-muzikleri","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/akunq.net\/tr\/?p=38828","title":{"rendered":"Dersim co\u011frafyas\u0131n\u0131n u\u00e7suz bucaks\u0131z m\u00fczikleri"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"Martin<\/a>Tu\u011fba Esen<\/a><\/p>\n

M\u00fczikolog Dr. Martin Greve’le, katliamlar, g\u00f6\u00e7ler ve politik ak\u0131mlar\u0131n etkileri alt\u0131nda de\u011fi\u015fen yap\u0131s\u0131 ve bug\u00fcne dek ke\u015ffedilememi\u015f y\u00f6nleriyle, Dersim\u2019in m\u00fczik gelenekleri ve Dersim Ermenilerinin bu gelenekler i\u00e7indeki yeri \u00fczerine konu\u015ftuk.<\/em> <\/b><\/p>\n

TU\u011eBA ESEN <\/b>
\nztugbaesen@gmail.com\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n

ALTU\u011e YILMAZ<\/b>
\naltugyilmaz@gmail.com<\/b><\/p>\n

Orient-Institut Istanbul\u2019un ara\u015ft\u0131rmac\u0131lar\u0131ndan, m\u00fczikolog Dr. Martin Greve, 28 Ocak\u2019ta Tarih Vakf\u0131\u2019nda \u2018Anlat\u0131lamaz\u0131 \u0130fade Etmek: Dersim\u2019in Yeni M\u00fczi\u011fi\u2019 ba\u015fl\u0131kl\u0131 bir konu\u015fma yapm\u0131\u015ft\u0131. Konu\u015fmas\u0131nda b\u00f6lgenin \u00e7ok dilli, \u00e7ok k\u00fclt\u00fcrl\u00fc yap\u0131s\u0131n\u0131n m\u00fczi\u011fe yans\u0131malar\u0131n\u0131 ortaya koyan Greve, Ermenilerin b\u00f6lgenin m\u00fczikal gelenekleri \u00fczerinde b\u0131rakt\u0131\u011f\u0131 izlere dair baz\u0131 ipu\u00e7lar\u0131 da vermi\u015fti. Biz de, bu izlerin pe\u015finden gitmek ve konuyu daha ayr\u0131nt\u0131l\u0131 olarak \u00f6\u011frenmek arzusuyla onun kap\u0131s\u0131n\u0131 \u00e7ald\u0131k. Greve\u2019le, katliamlar, g\u00f6\u00e7ler ve politik ak\u0131mlar\u0131n etkileri alt\u0131nda de\u011fi\u015fen yap\u0131s\u0131 ve bug\u00fcne dek ke\u015ffedilememi\u015f y\u00f6nleriyle, Dersim\u2019in m\u00fczik gelenekleri ve Dersim Ermenilerinin bu gelenekler i\u00e7indeki yeri \u00fczerine konu\u015ftuk.<\/p>\n

Tarih Vakf\u0131\u2019nda yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131z konu\u015fmada Dersim\u2019in m\u00fczi\u011fini s\u0131n\u0131fland\u0131rman\u0131n zorlu\u011fundan bahsetmi\u015ftiniz. Bunun nedeni nedir? <\/b><\/p>\n

Dersim m\u00fczi\u011fi sonsuz bir konu. \u00dczerinde birka\u00e7 senedir \u00e7al\u0131\u015f\u0131yorum ama h\u00e2l\u00e2 konunun tamamen i\u00e7ine girebilmi\u015f gibi hissetmiyorum kendimi. Bug\u00fcn Dersimli m\u00fczisyenler Arabesk\u2019ten elektroni\u011fe, halk m\u00fczi\u011finden popa kadar her t\u00fcrl\u00fc m\u00fczi\u011fi yap\u0131yorlar zaten. \u2018S\u0131n\u0131fland\u0131r\u0131lamaz\u2019 nitelemesini, \u00f6zellikle Dersim\u2019in geleneksel m\u00fczikleriyle ilgili olarak kullan\u0131yorum. Bu alanda ara\u015ft\u0131rma yapmak \u00e7ok zor, \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc kay\u0131t yok. Devletin yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131 resm\u00ee derleme \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalar\u0131nda Dersim neredeyse tamamen d\u0131\u015far\u0131da b\u0131rak\u0131lm\u0131\u015f. Yaln\u0131zca iki \u00e7al\u0131\u015fma var; biri 1936\u2019da Ferruh Arsunar taraf\u0131ndan, di\u011feri 1944\u2019te, Muzaffer Sar\u0131s\u00f6zen taraf\u0131ndan yap\u0131lm\u0131\u015f. Arsunar\u2019\u0131n \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmas\u0131n\u0131n ses kayd\u0131 yok; derlenen \u015fark\u0131lar\u0131n notalar\u0131 ve s\u00f6zlerinin yer ald\u0131\u011f\u0131 kitap 1937 y\u0131l\u0131nda \u2018Tunceli-Dersim Halk T\u00fcrk\u00fcleri ve Pentatonik\u2019 ba\u015fl\u0131\u011f\u0131yla yay\u0131mlanm\u0131\u015f. Sar\u0131s\u00f6zen\u2019in yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131 derlemelerin ses kay\u0131tlar\u0131 var ama ar\u015fivler kapal\u0131 oldu\u011fundan, bu \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmayla ilgili bir \u015fey s\u00f6yleyemiyoruz. \u00d6zel koleksiyonlarda baz\u0131 kay\u0131tlar var ama onlar\u0131n da \u00e7o\u011fu eri\u015fime kapal\u0131. K\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fcn, m\u00fczikal gelene\u011fin yok olmas\u0131n\u0131 durdurmak isteyenlerin \u015fahsi \u00e7abalar\u0131yla yapt\u0131klar\u0131, tarihi \u00f6nem ta\u015f\u0131yan kay\u0131tlar bunlar. Kapal\u0131 olmalar\u0131 sinir bozucu bir durum, \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc bug\u00fcn o gelenekler ger\u00e7ekten yok oluyor. Enstit\u00fc olarak, Dersimli ara\u015ft\u0131rmac\u0131 Mesut \u00d6zcan\u2019\u0131n yakla\u015f\u0131k 110 kasetten olu\u015fan koleksiyonunu ald\u0131k. Koleksiyondaki en eski kay\u0131tlar 70\u2019li y\u0131llarda ya\u015fl\u0131larla yap\u0131lm\u0131\u015f; bunlar\u0131n geleneksel m\u00fczikleri temsil etti\u011fini tahmin edebiliriz. Ancak kaydedilen m\u00fcziklerin bar\u0131nd\u0131rd\u0131\u011f\u0131 \u00e7e\u015fitlilik beni \u00e7ok \u015fa\u015f\u0131rtt\u0131.<\/p>\n

Nas\u0131l bir \u00e7e\u015fitlilikten s\u00f6z ediyorsunuz? <\/b><\/p>\n

Dersim, T\u00fcrkiye\u2019nin en k\u00fc\u00e7\u00fck illerinden biri. Buradan \u00e7\u0131kan baz\u0131 m\u00fczik t\u00fcrleri, \u00f6zellikle Kuzey Dersim\u2019dekiler, \u00e2\u015f\u0131k gelene\u011fine benziyor. Di\u011fer taraftan, Mazgirt\u2019te yap\u0131lm\u0131\u015f baz\u0131 kay\u0131tlar tam olarak dengbejlik gelene\u011fini yans\u0131t\u0131yor. Do\u011fu Dersim\u2019de, Hozat\u2019ta uzun havaya benzer formlar var. Ayn\u0131 k\u00f6y\u00fcn i\u00e7inde bile birbirinden \u00e7ok farkl\u0131 tarzlarla kar\u015f\u0131la\u015f\u0131labiliyor. A\u011f\u0131tlarda durum b\u00f6yle. Dersim\u2019in Alevi m\u00fczi\u011fi de bamba\u015fka, \u00e7ok b\u00fcy\u00fck bir alan. Hakk\u0131nda bug\u00fcne kadar neredeyse hi\u00e7 ara\u015ft\u0131rma yap\u0131lmam\u0131\u015f ve yine, s\u0131n\u0131fland\u0131r\u0131lmas\u0131 g\u00fc\u00e7. Dersim \u00e2\u015f\u0131k gelene\u011fi ile dengbej gelene\u011finin tam ortas\u0131nda duruyor. B\u00f6lgede konu\u015fulan her dilin ayr\u0131 bir gelene\u011fi var. T\u00fcrk\u00e7ede \u2018\u00e2\u015f\u0131k\u2019, K\u00fcrt\u00e7ede \u2018dengbej\u2019 olarak an\u0131lan, Zazacada ise ismi olmayan, kimi yerlerde \u2018sa\u2019 veya \u2018say\u0131r\u2019 olarak bilinen, ayr\u0131 ayr\u0131 gelenekler… Dersim TRT repertuar\u0131nda da hi\u00e7bir zaman standartla\u015fmam\u0131\u015f. Dolay\u0131s\u0131yla, hep bu sistemin d\u0131\u015f\u0131nda kald\u0131\u011f\u0131 i\u00e7in ortak bir \u00fcslup olu\u015fmam\u0131\u015f; ciddi bir \u00e7e\u015fitlilik s\u00f6z konusu. Bence bu durum, eskiden b\u00fct\u00fcn Anadolu i\u00e7in ge\u00e7erliydi. Anadolu\u2019da tek bir \u00e2\u015f\u0131k gelene\u011fi yoktu, \u00f6rne\u011fin Erzurum ile Malatya aras\u0131nda b\u00fcy\u00fck farklar vard\u0131. Fakat zamanla, milliyet\u00e7ili\u011fin de etkisiyle, standartla\u015fm\u0131\u015f, \u2018icat edilmi\u015f\u2019 bir \u00e2\u015f\u0131k gelene\u011fi ortaya \u00e7\u0131kt\u0131. Dengbej gelene\u011fi ise K\u00fcrt milliyet\u00e7ili\u011finin etkisi alt\u0131nda kald\u0131. Di\u011fer taraftan, Anadolu m\u00fczi\u011finin ger\u00e7ek yap\u0131s\u0131 Dersim\u2019de h\u00e2l\u00e2 g\u00f6zlemlenebiliyor; tek ve ortak bir \u00fcslup de\u011fil, ki\u015fisel ve y\u00f6resel \u00fcsluplarla, bir \u00e7e\u015fitlilik h\u00e2kim.<\/p>\n

Ara\u015ft\u0131rman\u0131zda Zazacaya m\u0131 odaklan\u0131yorsunuz yoksa T\u00fcrk\u00e7e m\u00fcziklerle de ilgileniyor musunuz? <\/b><\/p>\n

Eskiden Zazaca, Kurmanci, Ermenicenin de konu\u015fuldu\u011fu b\u00f6lgede, bug\u00fcn Tunceli\u2019nin g\u00fcnl\u00fck dili T\u00fcrk\u00e7e, \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc halk asimile olmu\u015f. Asl\u0131nda Dersim Tunceli s\u0131n\u0131rlar\u0131n\u0131n \u00e7ok \u00f6tesine uzanan, a\u00e7\u0131k bir alan. Hatta biraz mitle\u015fmi\u015f, nerede ba\u015flay\u0131p nerede bitti\u011fi belli olmayan bir co\u011frafya…<\/p>\n

Dersim\u2019de g\u00f6zlemledi\u011finiz asimilasyon, Almanya\u2019da ya\u015fayan Dersimliler i\u00e7in de ge\u00e7erli mi?<\/b><\/p>\n

Dersimliler Avrupa\u2019ya \u00e7ok iyi entegre oldu. Almanlarla evlilik yap\u0131yorlar, e\u011fitime \u00e7ok \u00f6nem veriyorlar… Bununla ilgili k\u0131sa bir hik\u00e2ye anlatay\u0131m: Bir grupla beraber, bir Ermeni manast\u0131r\u0131n\u0131n kal\u0131nt\u0131lar\u0131n\u0131 g\u00f6rmek i\u00e7in Hozat\u2019\u0131n kuzeyindeki Ergan k\u00f6y\u00fcne gittik. \u00c7ok g\u00fczel, bin senelik bir manast\u0131r… Aram\u0131zda Ahmet Aslan da vard\u0131. K\u00f6yl\u00fcler onu g\u00f6r\u00fcnce heyecanland\u0131. Bizi davet ettiler, manast\u0131r\u0131n yan\u0131ndaki bir bah\u00e7ede oturduk. Yan\u0131m\u0131za ya\u015fl\u0131 bir kad\u0131n geldi, bizimle Zazaca konu\u015fmaya ba\u015flad\u0131. Sonra onun k\u0131z\u0131 geldi, bize kahve ikram etti. Onun anadili ise T\u00fcrk\u00e7eydi. Annesiyle Zazaca, bizimle T\u00fcrk\u00e7e konu\u015fuyordu. Sohbet ederken onun da k\u0131zlar\u0131 geldi ve benimle, aksans\u0131z bir Almanca konu\u015fmaya ba\u015flad\u0131lar. Almanya\u2019da ya\u015f\u0131yorlarm\u0131\u015f. Anneleriyle T\u00fcrk\u00e7e, anneanneleriyle Zazaca anla\u015f\u0131yorlar. O g\u00fcn aram\u0131zda olan Dersimli Ermeniler Derne\u011fi Ba\u015fkan\u0131 Miran P\u0131rgi\u00e7, bana ya\u015fl\u0131 kad\u0131n\u0131n b\u00fcy\u00fck ihtimalle Ermeni k\u00f6kenli oldu\u011funu s\u00f6yledi. D\u00fc\u015f\u00fcn\u00fcn; d\u00f6rt ku\u015fak, d\u00f6rt dil… Ya\u015fl\u0131 kad\u0131n\u0131n annesi ve babas\u0131n\u0131n dili Ermeniceymi\u015f; kendisinin dili ise, asimilasyondan dolay\u0131, Zazaca olmu\u015f. Sonra k\u0131z\u0131 asimile olmu\u015f, T\u00fcrk\u00e7e konu\u015fuyor. Almanya\u2019ya g\u00f6\u00e7 ediyorlar, yine bir asimilasyondan ge\u00e7iyorlar, ve torunlar\u0131 Almanca konu\u015fuyor. Ve bu, Dersim i\u00e7in \u00e7ok da ola\u011fan\u00fcst\u00fc bir durum de\u011fil.<\/p>\n

Son d\u00f6nemde Dersim\u2019de Ermeni kimli\u011fine ve k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fcne y\u00f6nelik bir merak, Dersim Alevi k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fcyle ortak noktalar\u0131n\u0131 anlama iste\u011fi oldu\u011fu g\u00f6r\u00fcl\u00fcyor. Bu durum zaman zaman m\u00fczik alan\u0131ndaki \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalara da yans\u0131yor. Sahada da bunu g\u00f6zlemlediniz mi?<\/b><\/p>\n

Evet, bu durum bizi \u015fa\u015f\u0131rtt\u0131. Hozat\u2019ta bir kahvede otururken, \u201cBurada Ermeniler var m\u0131, hangi k\u00f6ylerde ya\u015fam\u0131\u015flar?\u201d diye sorduk, hemen cevap geldi: \u201cTabii, bizim k\u00f6yde de vard\u0131. Bu k\u00f6y\u00fcn eski ad\u0131 Kilisek\u00f6y zaten.\u201d Ayn\u0131 soruyu Erzurum\u2019da sorsayd\u0131m kesinlikle ba\u015fka bir cevap al\u0131rd\u0131m. Dersim\u2019de, Ermeniler konusunda hi\u00e7bir gerginlik hissetmedim. \u0130nsanlar \u00e7ok a\u00e7\u0131k davran\u0131yor. Tabii, 1915\u2019te Dersim \u00e7ok say\u0131da Ermeni i\u00e7in bir kurtulu\u015f oldu ama herkes i\u00e7in de\u011fil. Bu konu biraz abart\u0131l\u0131yor. \u00d6zellikle Dersim\u2019in g\u00fcneyinde \u00e7ok say\u0131da insan \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fclm\u00fc\u015f. Dersim\u2019de, bununla ilgili sorumlulu\u011fun kabul edildi\u011fine \u00e7ok\u00e7a tan\u0131k oldum. \u0130\u00e7inde Ermenilerin oldu\u011fu \u00e7ok aile var. Dersimli Alevilerin, soyk\u0131r\u0131mdan korktuklar\u0131n\u0131, 1915\u2019ten sonra s\u0131ran\u0131n kendilerine gelece\u011fini d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnd\u00fcklerini biliyoruz. Ermenilerle kendi durumlar\u0131 aras\u0131nda paralellik g\u00f6r\u00fcyorlard\u0131.<\/p>\n

Bir anlamda, korktuklar\u0131 ba\u015flar\u0131na geldi…<\/b><\/p>\n

Evet, \u00f6yle oldu. 37-38 Dersim olaylar\u0131 Ermenilerle de ilgiliydi. \u00c7\u00fcnk\u00fc o b\u00f6lgede, h\u00e2l\u00e2 1915\u2019ten sa\u011f kurtulmu\u015f Ermeniler vard\u0131. Ziyaret etti\u011fimiz bir k\u00f6y\u00fcn ya\u015fl\u0131lar\u0131, 1938 y\u0131l\u0131na kadar k\u00f6y n\u00fcfusunun yar\u0131s\u0131n\u0131n Ermenilerden olu\u015ftu\u011funu, sonra askerlerin onlar\u0131 g\u00f6t\u00fcrd\u00fc\u011f\u00fcn\u00fc ve bir daha bu insanlardan haber alamad\u0131klar\u0131n\u0131 s\u00f6ylediler.<\/p>\n

T\u00fcm bunlar b\u00f6lgenin m\u00fczi\u011fine yans\u0131yor mu? <\/b><\/p>\n

Pek yans\u0131m\u0131yor. Ahmet Aslan\u2019\u0131n Trabzon s\u00fcrg\u00fcn\u00fcn\u00fc anlatan bir \u015fark\u0131s\u0131 var ama onun da tam olarak bu hik\u00e2yelere i\u015faret etti\u011fini s\u00f6yleyemeyiz. Genel olarak, net tarihi anlat\u0131lar\u0131 olan a\u011f\u0131tlar ve \u015fark\u0131lar \u00e7ok az.<\/p>\n

Sunumunuzda b\u00f6lgede ilk kez Ermeniler taraf\u0131ndan kullan\u0131lan baz\u0131 enstr\u00fcmanlar\u0131n Dersim m\u00fczi\u011fine entegre oldu\u011fundan bahsetmi\u015ftiniz. Bu konuda ne gibi veriler var?<\/b><\/p>\n

Mesela keman kullan\u0131m\u0131, Dersim\u2019in geleneksel m\u00fczi\u011finde bir-iki ku\u015fak \u00f6nce yayg\u0131nla\u015ft\u0131. Keman\u0131 kemen\u00e7e gibi \u00e7al\u0131yorlar, geleneksel a\u011f\u0131tlara kemanla e\u015flik ediliyor. Bu enstr\u00fcman Dersim\u2019e Elaz\u0131\u011f\u2019dan, Elaz\u0131\u011f\u2019daki misyoner ve Ermeni okullar\u0131ndan geldi. 20. y\u00fczy\u0131l\u0131n ba\u015flar\u0131nda, bu okullarda Bat\u0131 orkestralar\u0131 vard\u0131. Elaz\u0131\u011fl\u0131 m\u00fczisyenlerin \u00e7o\u011fu da Ermeni\u2019ydi. B\u00fcy\u00fck ihtimalle keman\u0131 onlar Dersim\u2019e getirdiler.<\/p>\n

Dersim\u2019in bug\u00fcn ya\u015fayan m\u00fczik gelenekleri i\u00e7inde, 1915 \u00f6ncesinde Dersim\u2019de Ermenilerin nas\u0131l bir m\u00fczik k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fc oldu\u011funa i\u015faret edebilecek ba\u015fka ipu\u00e7lar\u0131 var m\u0131? <\/b><\/p>\n

Ara\u015ft\u0131rmamda bu konuya odaklanm\u0131yorum ama Ermeni kaynaklar\u0131nda, b\u00f6lgenin g\u00fcney k\u0131sm\u0131nda, \u00f6zellikle \u00c7emi\u015fgezek ve Pertek\u2019te derlenip notaya al\u0131nm\u0131\u015f \u00e7ok say\u0131da \u015fark\u0131 var. Bu notalar Dersim\u2019in bug\u00fcn bildi\u011fimiz m\u00fczi\u011finden \u00e7ok farkl\u0131 bir m\u00fczi\u011fe i\u015faret ediyor ama bunlar\u0131 de\u011ferlendirip anlamak \u00e7ok zor, \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc \u015fark\u0131lar\u0131n nas\u0131l, hangi s\u00fcslemelerle, ne t\u00fcr g\u0131rtlak kullan\u0131mlar\u0131yla s\u00f6ylendiklerini bilmiyoruz.<\/p>\n

En az\u0131ndan \u2018ses\u2019 d\u00fczeyinde, kaybolmu\u015f bir gelenekten s\u00f6z ediyoruz o halde…<\/b><\/p>\n

100 sene m\u00fczik i\u00e7in \u00e7ok uzun bir zaman. Ben bug\u00fcne dek, Dersim\u2019e \u00f6zg\u00fc bir Ermenice \u015fark\u0131 dinlemedim. Belki de tek istisna, Mikail Aslan\u2019\u0131n \u2018Petag – Dersim\u2019in Ermeni Halk \u015eark\u0131lar\u0131\u2019 adl\u0131 alb\u00fcm\u00fc. Bu alb\u00fcm \u00e7\u0131kt\u0131\u011f\u0131nda Hollanda\u2019daki Dersim Vakf\u0131\u2019nda epey bir tart\u0131\u015fma ya\u015fand\u0131, \u00e7ok sert ele\u015ftirildi: \u201cBu Dersim\u2019in m\u00fczi\u011fi de\u011fil. \u015eark\u0131da bir hamamdan bahsediliyor ama bizde hamam yok. Bu farkl\u0131 bir tarz, bu ezgiler Dersim\u2019e ait olamaz\u201d dendi. Peki, hangi m\u00fczikle kar\u015f\u0131la\u015ft\u0131rma yap\u0131yorsunuz? 100 sene evvel oradaki b\u00fct\u00fcn bu insanlar \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fclm\u00fc\u015f, do\u011fal olarak bu gelenek de orada yok olmu\u015f.<\/p>\n

Bu gelene\u011fin izleri nerede s\u00fcr\u00fclebilir peki?<\/b><\/p>\n

Ermenistan\u2019la irtibata ge\u00e7mek gerekiyor, \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc orada kay\u0131tlar var. Ermenistan\u2019a ka\u00e7an m\u00fczisyenlerden derlenmi\u015f \u015fark\u0131lar\u0131n notalar\u0131 bulunabilir. Asl\u0131nda ortada kocaman bir konu var: Travma ve m\u00fczik. Dersimlilerin m\u00fczi\u011fi travmadan ne \u015fekilde etkilenmi\u015f? Ayn\u0131 soruyu Ermeniler i\u00e7in de sorabiliriz. Dersim Ermeni \u015fark\u0131lar\u0131n\u0131n notalar\u0131na bakt\u0131\u011f\u0131mda \u00e7ok \u015fa\u015f\u0131rd\u0131m; ezgiler hep ne\u015feli ve y\u00fcksek tempoluydu. Bug\u00fcn geleneksel Ermeni m\u00fczi\u011finde a\u011f\u0131r ezgilerin h\u00e2kim oldu\u011fu g\u00f6r\u00fcl\u00fcyor ama belki de soyk\u0131r\u0131mdan sonra, travman\u0131n etkisiyle b\u00f6yle oldu. Tabii, bunu ispatlamak \u00e7ok zor. Dersim m\u00fczi\u011finde bug\u00fcn en tan\u0131nm\u0131\u015f form a\u011f\u0131t; bu form \u2018k\u0131lam\u2019 ad\u0131yla an\u0131l\u0131yor ama asl\u0131nda k\u0131lam sadece a\u011f\u0131t de\u011fil, her t\u00fcr \u015fark\u0131, t\u00fcrk\u00fc demek. Fakat bug\u00fcn direkt a\u011f\u0131t olarak \u00e7evriliyor. Bence bu 1938\u2019den sonra ortaya \u00e7\u0131kan bir durum.<\/p>\n

Belki geriye yaln\u0131zca a\u011f\u0131tlar kald\u0131, m\u00fczik \u2018a\u011f\u0131t\u2019la e\u015fde\u011fer oldu…<\/b><\/p>\n

Asl\u0131nda a\u011f\u0131tlar \u00e7o\u011fald\u0131. 38\u2019le ilgili \u00e7ok fazla a\u011f\u0131t var. H\u00e2l\u00e2 a\u015fka dair k\u0131lamlar da var ama bunlar\u0131n say\u0131s\u0131 \u00e7ok az. Bu gelenek bitti ve devam\u0131 yok. Bug\u00fcnk\u00fc Dersim m\u00fczi\u011finde Metin ve Kemal Kahraman, Ahmet Aslan, Mikail Aslan, Erdo\u011fan Emir gibi isimler \u00f6ne \u00e7\u0131k\u0131yor. Fakat onlar\u0131nki belki 15 senedir var olan, yeni bir \u00fcslup. Bunun \u00f6ncesinde geleneksel m\u00fczik var. Daha geriye gittik\u00e7e belki de Ermenice m\u00fczik ortaya \u00e7\u0131kacak. Bunun \u00fczerine \u00e7al\u0131\u015faca\u011f\u0131m. Dersim\u2019in m\u00fczi\u011fi b\u00fcy\u00fck bir mit, ve tek bir tarzdan ibaret de\u011fil.<\/p>\n

S\u00f6z\u00fcn\u00fc etti\u011finiz baz\u0131 m\u00fczisyenler, Dersim\u2019de ve Dersimli kimli\u011finde 70\u2019li y\u0131llar\u0131n ortalar\u0131ndan itibaren ya\u015fanan politizasyon i\u00e7inde, Dersim Alevi k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fcne \u00f6zg\u00fc geleneklerin \u2018gericilik\u2019 olarak g\u00f6r\u00fcld\u00fc\u011f\u00fcn\u00fc, bu gelene\u011fin en \u00f6nemli ta\u015f\u0131y\u0131c\u0131lar\u0131ndan olan dedelerin \u00f6telendi\u011fini, bunun k\u00fclt\u00fcrel a\u00e7\u0131dan b\u00fcy\u00fck bir kayba yol a\u00e7t\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 s\u00f6yl\u00fcyorlar. Siz sahada bu konuda neler g\u00f6zlemlediniz?<\/p>\n

Dersim\u2019in m\u00fczikal geleneklerindeki de\u011fi\u015fimde politikle\u015fme \u00e7ok \u00f6nemli bir rol oynuyor. M\u00fclakat yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131m dedelerin a\u00e7\u0131k\u00e7a s\u00f6yledi\u011fi bir \u015fey vard\u0131: \u201cAlevili\u011fi devlet de\u011fil, solcular mahvetti.\u201d 60\u2019larda ve 70\u2019lerde solcu gen\u00e7leri inanc\u0131 su\u00e7lad\u0131 ve Alevilikle aras\u0131na ciddi bir mesafe koydu. Bug\u00fcn Dersim\u2019de ve Almanya\u2019da d\u00fczenlenen festivallerde Yorum, Munzur, \u0130syan Ate\u015fi gibi gruplar sahne al\u0131yor, her yer bayraklarla donat\u0131l\u0131yor. Asl\u0131nda bu \u015fa\u015f\u0131rt\u0131c\u0131 bir durum. Tunceli, Alevi n\u00fcfusunun \u00e7o\u011funlu\u011fu olu\u015fturdu\u011fu tek il. Bu y\u00fczden, burada bir Alevi festivali d\u00fczenlenmesini beklemek mant\u0131kl\u0131, ama bug\u00fcn d\u00fczenlenen festivaller \u2018Alevi\u2019 karakteri ta\u015f\u0131m\u0131yor, son derece politikler. Bunlar\u0131n en \u00f6nemlisi Munzur Festivali. Munzur, Alevilerin \u00f6nemli ziyaret yerlerinden. Seyit R\u0131za b\u00f6lgenin \u00f6nemli bir sembol\u00fc. Bazen festival afi\u015flerinde, semah d\u00f6nen insanlar gibi Alevilik sembolleri kullan\u0131l\u0131yor ama sahnelerde b\u00f6yle bir durum yok. \u00d6zellikle yerel se\u00e7imleri BDP kazand\u0131ktan sonra sahneler tamamen politize oldu.<\/p>\n

Fakat son d\u00f6nemde, m\u00fczikte gelene\u011fin yeniden sahiplenildi\u011fi de g\u00f6r\u00fcl\u00fcyor… <\/b><\/p>\n

Evet. Metin ve Kemal Kahraman\u2019la birlikte, gelene\u011fi yeniden canland\u0131rma hareketi g\u00fc\u00e7lendi. Onlardan \u00f6nce Dersim m\u00fczi\u011fiyle ilgili pek bir \u015fey bilinmiyordu. Bunda Kalan M\u00fczik\u2019in de etkisi b\u00fcy\u00fck. Bazen, Firik Dede gibi \u00fcnl\u00fc dedelerin, amat\u00f6r m\u00fczisyenler taraf\u0131ndan yap\u0131lm\u0131\u015f, ses kalitesi d\u00fc\u015f\u00fck ama orijinal kay\u0131tlar\u0131, g\u00fcncel profesyonel alb\u00fcmlerde kullan\u0131l\u0131yor. Diasporada yeti\u015fen m\u00fczisyenler uluslararas\u0131 m\u00fcziklere \u00e7ok a\u00e7\u0131k. \u00d6rne\u011fin Mikail Aslan Almanya\u2019daki bir m\u00fczik okulunda \u00f6\u011frenciydi, orada saksafon \u00e7almay\u0131 \u00f6\u011frendi. \u0130lk alb\u00fcmlerinde bu enstr\u00fcman\u0131 kullan\u0131yor. Ahmet Aslan Rotterdam\u2019da \u00f6\u011frenim g\u00f6rd\u00fc, orada Flamenko gitar dersleri ald\u0131; ba\u011flamada ve gitarda kulland\u0131\u011f\u0131 teknik bu e\u011fitimden geliyor. Aynur Do\u011fan, \u0130spanyol bir m\u00fczisyenle birlikte bir alb\u00fcm yapt\u0131. Bu \u015fekilde \u00e7al\u0131\u015fan \u00e7ok Dersimli m\u00fczisyen var.<\/p>\n

Bu geli\u015fmelerin \u0131\u015f\u0131\u011f\u0131nda, sizce Dersim\u2019in m\u00fczi\u011fi nereye do\u011fru gidiyor? <\/b><\/p>\n

Son d\u00f6nemde, Dersim m\u00fczi\u011finde \u00f6nemli ba\u015far\u0131lar kaydedildi. B\u00f6lgenin m\u00fczi\u011fi baz\u0131 sabit \u00f6zellikler kazand\u0131. Art\u0131k \u2018Dersim sound\u2019u\u2019 diye bir \u015fey var. A\u011f\u0131r, aralarda bol eslerin oldu\u011fu, hemen ay\u0131rt edilebilen, ve gelene\u011fin \u00e7ok \u00f6nemli bir rol oynad\u0131\u011f\u0131 bir \u2018sound\u2019… \u2018O Ses T\u00fcrkiye\u2019 yar\u0131\u015fmas\u0131 da Dersim i\u00e7in b\u00fcy\u00fck ba\u015far\u0131. Batmanl\u0131 yar\u0131\u015fmac\u0131 Emre Sertkaya, Ahmet Aslan\u2019\u0131n seslendirdi\u011fi \u2018Minnet Eylemem\u2019 adl\u0131 deyi\u015fi s\u00f6yledi, hayalinin Ahmet Aslan\u2019la birlikte \u015fark\u0131 s\u00f6ylemek oldu\u011funu a\u00e7\u0131klad\u0131 ve yar\u0131\u015fman\u0131n birincisi oldu. Art\u0131k t\u00fcm T\u00fcrkiye onlar\u0131 tan\u0131yor. Bundan sonra ne olur bilmiyorum. Solcular\u0131n m\u00fczik \u00fczerindeki etkisi h\u00e2l\u00e2 \u00e7ok b\u00fcy\u00fck. Bu bir s\u00fcre daha devam edecek. Zaten, malum, Do\u011fu Anadolu\u2019nun durumu \u00e7ok k\u00f6t\u00fc. Aral\u0131k ay\u0131nda Dersim\u2019deydim. Herkes Diyarbak\u0131r\u2019da olup bitenleri takip ediyordu. Tunceli \u00dcniversitesi\u2019nde \u00e7ok say\u0131da Diyarbak\u0131rl\u0131 \u00f6\u011frenci var, orada da eylemler yap\u0131l\u0131yor. Dersim bu ya\u015fananlardan etkilenebilir. Siyasi geli\u015fmeler, m\u00fczi\u011fin de gidi\u015fat\u0131n\u0131 belirleyecek.<\/p>\n

\u201cAvrupa\u2019daki Ermenice m\u00fczi\u011fin tarihi hen\u00fcz yaz\u0131lmad\u0131\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

Almanya\u2019daki \u00e7al\u0131\u015fman\u0131zda, T\u00fcrkiye\u2019den gitmi\u015f Ermenilerin m\u00fczikleriyle de kar\u015f\u0131la\u015ft\u0131n\u0131z m\u0131?<\/b><\/p>\n

\u00c7ok az… Ermenilerin \u00e7o\u011fu Avrupa\u2019ya 1915\u2019ten sonra, yani T\u00fcrklerden \u00e7ok daha \u00f6nce gitmi\u015fler ve Avrupa\u2019da ayr\u0131 bir cemaat olu\u015fturmu\u015flar. Onlar\u0131n etkisini daha \u00e7ok klasik m\u00fczikte aramak gerekiyor san\u0131r\u0131m. Baz\u0131 T\u00fcrk ve K\u00fcrt gruplar\u0131n, d\u00fczenledikleri festivallere Ermenileri de davet etti\u011fini biliyorum, ama davete icabet eden olmad\u0131. Karde\u015f T\u00fcrk\u00fcler grubuyla ortak bir projemiz vard\u0131; Berlin Filarmoni\u2019de verdikleri konser \u00f6ncesinde, Ermeni ve S\u00fcryani kilise korolar\u0131yla birlikte bir at\u00f6lye \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmas\u0131 yapt\u0131lar. Bunun d\u0131\u015f\u0131nda, Avrupa\u2019daki T\u00fcrkiyelilerin m\u00fczi\u011fini ara\u015ft\u0131r\u0131rken, \u00e7ok az Ermeni\u2019ye rastlad\u0131m. Neredeyse hi\u00e7 kar\u0131\u015fm\u0131yorlar T\u00fcrkiyeli di\u011fer gruplar\u0131n k\u00fclt\u00fcr hayat\u0131na. Avrupa\u2019daki Ermenice m\u00fczi\u011fin tarihi de hen\u00fcz yaz\u0131lmad\u0131. Bu, ara\u015ft\u0131r\u0131lmay\u0131 bekleyen, \u00e7ok geni\u015f ve \u00f6nemli bir konu.<\/p>\n

\u201cAnadolu m\u00fczi\u011fi ara\u015ft\u0131rmalar\u0131 hen\u00fcz yolun ba\u015f\u0131nda\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

Dersim\u2019in m\u00fczikal geleneklerinin \u2018mit\u2019 olmaktan \u00e7\u0131kar\u0131lmas\u0131 i\u00e7in nas\u0131l bir ara\u015ft\u0131rma yap\u0131lmas\u0131 gerekiyor? <\/b><\/p>\n

Koleksiyonlar\u0131n\u0131 ara\u015ft\u0131rmac\u0131lara a\u00e7an insanlar var. Ancak sadece tarihi kay\u0131tlar\u0131 de\u011ferlendirerek ilerlemek zor. Bizim enstit\u00fcdeki kasetleri sadece bir kere dinlemek bile aylar s\u00fcrer, ki hepsini en az birka\u00e7 kez dinlemek, sonra da en az\u0131ndan baz\u0131lar\u0131n\u0131 notaya almak gerekiyor. Metin ve Kemal Kahraman\u2019\u0131n elindeki koleksiyon belki 500 saatliktir. Derlemeciler \u00e7ok \u00f6nemli bir i\u015f yapm\u0131\u015flar, \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc yok olmu\u015f bir gelenekten s\u00f6z ediyoruz; kalan son izler bu derlemelerde. Bug\u00fcne kadar Dersim\u2019le ilgili m\u00fczikal bir analiz yap\u0131lmam\u0131\u015f. Zaten T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de halk m\u00fczi\u011fiyle ilgili ara\u015ft\u0131rmalar, b\u00fcy\u00fck \u00f6l\u00e7\u00fcde, derlenmi\u015f \u015fark\u0131lar\u0131n notaya al\u0131nmas\u0131ndan ibaret. Halk m\u00fczi\u011fiyle ilgili kitaplar\u0131n yar\u0131s\u0131 notalardan olu\u015fuyor. T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de yeni bir etnom\u00fczikolojik tarz\u0131n olu\u015fmas\u0131 gerekiyor. Anadolu\u2019yla ilgili ara\u015ft\u0131rmalar bir 100 sene daha devam edebilir. Yani, daha yolun ba\u015f\u0131nday\u0131z.<\/p>\n

http:\/\/www.agos.com.tr\/tr\/yazi\/14506\/dersim-cografyasinin-ucsuz-bucaksiz-muzikleri<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Tu\u011fba Esen M\u00fczikolog Dr. Martin Greve’le, katliamlar, g\u00f6\u00e7ler ve politik ak\u0131mlar\u0131n etkileri alt\u0131nda de\u011fi\u015fen yap\u0131s\u0131 ve bug\u00fcne dek ke\u015ffedilememi\u015f y\u00f6nleriyle, Dersim\u2019in m\u00fczik gelenekleri ve Dersim Ermenilerinin bu gelenekler i\u00e7indeki yeri \u00fczerine konu\u015ftuk. TU\u011eBA ESEN ztugbaesen@gmail.com\u00a0 ALTU\u011e YILMAZ altugyilmaz@gmail.com Orient-Institut Istanbul\u2019un ara\u015ft\u0131rmac\u0131lar\u0131ndan, m\u00fczikolog Dr. Martin Greve, 28 Ocak\u2019ta Tarih Vakf\u0131\u2019nda \u2018Anlat\u0131lamaz\u0131 \u0130fade Etmek: Dersim\u2019in Yeni M\u00fczi\u011fi\u2019 […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":7,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1,45,71],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-38828","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-haberler","category-halk-sanati","category-mulakatlar"],"yoast_head":"\nDersim co\u011frafyas\u0131n\u0131n u\u00e7suz bucaks\u0131z m\u00fczikleri - Bati Ermenistan Ve Bati Ermenileri Sorunlari Ara\u015ftirmalar Merkezi<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/akunq.net\/tr\/?p=38828\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Dersim co\u011frafyas\u0131n\u0131n u\u00e7suz bucaks\u0131z m\u00fczikleri - Bati Ermenistan Ve Bati Ermenileri Sorunlari Ara\u015ftirmalar Merkezi\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Tu\u011fba Esen M\u00fczikolog Dr. Martin Greve’le, katliamlar, g\u00f6\u00e7ler ve politik ak\u0131mlar\u0131n etkileri alt\u0131nda de\u011fi\u015fen yap\u0131s\u0131 ve bug\u00fcne dek ke\u015ffedilememi\u015f y\u00f6nleriyle, Dersim\u2019in m\u00fczik gelenekleri ve Dersim Ermenilerinin bu gelenekler i\u00e7indeki yeri \u00fczerine konu\u015ftuk. 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